Envoy ALPA Upgrade/Flow info
 

appy New Year!

Transitioning from one year into another brings a natural time for reflection, and hence it is appropriate to review where we’ve been in 2015 and prognosticate on what’s to come in 2016. Transparency from your union volunteers has always been a primary goal. We operate amongst information and disinformation – and we fret about which is most true, relevant, and worthy of transmission. We also operate in an industry that covets discretion for competitive reasons, but know that your MEC is committed to making the Envoy pilots as well informed as possible.

With that in mind, attached to this email is a series of charts that show where we’ve been as an airline in 2015, and where we think we’re headed in 2016. The information has been assembled from various sources that we believe to be accurate as of this writing. Naturally, everything is subject to the fluctuations inherent of our industry. Further commentary is included in this week’s Newsblast.

Moving forward – in a big picture sense – we believe we have finally turned the corner in a positive direction. With the delivery and entry of the E175 into revenue service, Envoy will be the only operator of these coveted large aircraft in the wholly owned system. Combined with the increasing pilot pay shortage and resultant staffing challenges at many carriers, Envoy is well positioned to utilize our new fleet for AAG's benefit. We remain steadfast and confident that there would be significant synergies realized by placing additional aircraft into the capable hands of the Envoy employees, who have worked so diligently to make Envoy a top tier carrier in both service and performance in 2015.

There is still much work to do in the new year. A fresh start does not come without its own challenges, including continuing to improve the lives of the hard working Envoy pilots, making Envoy a preferred carrier for the sparse new hires on the job hunt, and ensuring the E175 kickoff is successful. The Association is optimistic that the tide is in fact turning – in a big picture sense – however, our resources will remain laser focused on the constant defense of our contract, and continuing to seek improvements. The regional world changed again in 2015 and we must adapt and exceed the industry standard if we are to prosper in 2016.

Thanks to the Negotiating Committee for researching and assembling the following information.

Happy New Year,
In Unity,

Sam Pool
MEC Chairman

Line Holders vs Reserves
 

Line holders vs Reserve

Fleet Projections
 

Fleet Projections

Total Pilots
 

Total Pilots

Block Hours
 

Block Hours

Block hours again
 

More Block hours

Cool story bruh


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It says projected a bit under 4 year upgrade from date of hire on 12/7/15. Guess ol Ric flushed the 2.5.

ALPA's predictions vs company propaganda. ALPA's are more realistic.

Envoy will have to offer something other than a flow-through agreement to attract new hires.

SJS 175s? New base in MIA?

Those numbers have to be depressing for ENY pilots. Good luck to them.

The plan is to shrink 100 pilots?

I don't think a new hire that has 60k+ in loans will fall for the new shiny ejets or a satellite base in MIA. Management must raise pay or offer retention bonuses to keep pilots around. Keep in mind, Envoy will lose 90 pilots over the next 3 months to mainline.

* Subject to change without notice, mileage may vary based on economic factors, 30 pilots a month are a serving suggestion only, undefers not included, terms and conditions apply.

They've been doing it for years without blinking an eye.

This...

Only guys not new to the industry wants more money. Take in consideration that the average Commercial/CFI new to the industry is Single and 25/30k is the most they ever done. Usually they are happy and don't care as far as they are flying a LargeRJ (if is a carrier with 50 seater and 76 seater) or a jet (if is a carrier with props and jets, ex: PDT & Commutair).

Agreed but I think we can all agree that the pool of that kind of pilot is drying up fast.

Yes, pilots can be more selective for sure. Pilots became more selective in the late 90's early 2000s when many regional companies offered pay for training. Comair, ACA, ConEx, CommutAir all these were pay for training companies. Once the pilot pool slowed nobody went to those thus they had to drop that practice. Seems to me that what Envoy is offering isn't something bad is it?

When someone selects a regional they usually look at Bases, Contract, Upgrade Time and lastly now today a Flow Thru. Where is Envoy lacking compared to other Regionals operating the 175's? Are they not getting any pilots in class already? If that's the case then AAG will up the ante don't worry.
American will make sure Envoy succeeds. Believe me there will be a more the a few contract carriers close there doors before Envoy.

It is...but also envoy have a pipeline program that started about a year ago. It seems to be maturing and most of the NH are CFIs with 2 year contract.

That should be enough to keep people coming thru the doors. Also when you advertise to the CFI that "Hey you just got your interview with AA, just wait for your number. Also you can apply from the street to every airline including AA.", it is a good deal.

Of course, nobody knows if it's going to work until the next couple of years.

Envoy is a terrible place...
 

I would put a little more value in this data than in RW's predictions, with the exception of the total pilot staffing chart. I don't think Envoy is going to be able to retain 360 new hires for the year. I also believe that if the company were to offer more money, it wouldn't be for pilots already on property. They will try to entice more new hires with some sort of creative stepped bonus plan. The point being, there is absolutely no reason to come to envoy right now, unless you want to live in DFW or ORD, possibly...? There are other carriers that have bases in those locations offering shorter upgrade times with better QOL. We need to have some serious attrition for the QOL of life to get better for our own pilots. This flying 68 hour average hard line value and having 45% of your ENTIRE pilot group on reserve is RIDICULOUS! This just shows how overstaffed we have been and that the company should've furloughed. Unfortunately that would've activated the 100% flow to AA clause, something obviously AA did not want. I can see how reserve might be attractive for you if you are senior enough on reserve and want to get paid 75 hours a month for not working. This is a terrible organization to work for, they enjoy blowing smoke up the a$$#$$ of the pilot group and then laughing at them behind closed doors. Make no mistake, the management here absolutely despises their labor force. Very evident with the number of disciplinary terminations, constant contractual abuse, paired with the "fly it and grieve it," attitude.

I don't know how many times, or how many ways one could tell potential new hires to:

"STAY AWAY FROM ENVOY AIRLINES! YOU WILL HATE AND LOATHE YOURSELF FOR WORKING HERE!"

but I guess some people just have to learn the hard way...

2.5 years into my Envoy stint, these are my sentiments exactly. The company is totally against the pilot group and will go out of their way to make your life miserable. The flow is BS. Yes, there are people flowing now but it's just until they get the 824 out the door and Envoy is "right sized." The flow will slow or stop and the company will flat out say grieve it.

There is no reason to consider Envoy. Poster above has it right. Stay Away From ENVOY.

It's been said that some people learn from the mistakes of others and some people just have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

So, flying 65 hrs and getting paid 72...jummmmmm seems that someone can't live withting his/her means. I bid 65hr 14/15 days off lines, it means less work for more money. That with cancelationa somewhere in the month it's better. But hey I'm just a half full glass type of guy.

And you think every other regional is not the same? Every pilot, doesn't matter which airline, is just a number. You can quit, go somewhere and it will be the same. You can make $150k in a major and will never be enough, pilots want everything they expect and more. When something doesn't go according to our expectations is not good. So at the end the grass is always greener in other place.

People have the right to go where they want to. Now here's a question, how is your QOL better if there's no one new?

And that's why other carriers pilots don't want envoy to succeed, because we still have a big chunk of the pie. Like someone said before, other contracts carriers will go away before envoy.

"Show me a hot chick and I'll show you a guy tired of banging her."

Every regional has it's issues no matter how good they look. If you're not happy bail out and go to another regional. Maybe just maybe that will make you happy.

"It's not you, it's me."
Every regional may have issues, but we don't work at those regionals and have no basis for comparison. Many of us have, however, worked at American Eagle Airlines longer than we worked at envoy. Comparing post- to pre-bankruptcy is possible. And this management team is different than before. RW has basically declared war on the pilot group, in a way that none of his predecessors ever did.

Serious question. What do you think motivated RW to declare war on the pilots? Is it coming from above and he is just the one carrying out the orders?

War on the pilots is essentially what has happened. Reserve being the worst offense but also included are the base closures and crappy line builds.

So stop being so hypocritical, do the rest of us a favor and quit. Kind of hard to tell other pilots to stay away when you are not willing to walk away yourself. What keeps you around if you work for such a horrible company?

The WORST offense was a sham bankruptcy with concessions followed by more concessionary demands made by the new mgt (who does what they say there going to do!) and their hired hit man Jerry Glass.

It's not Ric. He's just a willing surrogate.

Are you blind? Or just plain dumb. Envoy is a horrible company. They treat their employees like dog******. Pilots especially. Crap wages, crap schedules, ****** all over you reserve, paycomp doesn't pay you what you are owed and you have to suit up and fight for the few bucks the company actually owes you. These are a few of the items why no employable pilot should EVER choose Envoy.

After this treatment, what makes you line up in front of Envoy management and face the enemy (Envoy detractors) with pitchforks along with that gleam in your eye that says, "just try and attack MY management team."

I have a little reality check for you but you just described is every single regional airline in the industry. Hell, that describes most companies. Ever have a real job? They all suck. Did you know that envoy is one of the few regionals that actually allow you to proffer for trips? We are one of the few airlines, major or regional that still have hard schedules. You can make a lot of money creating conflicts with hard schedules. The difference between me and you is, I take the bad with the good and make the best of it. You whine and complain and in the end don't do anything about your problems. Yes, having a 58 hr line sucks but when you pick up OT at 150%/200% you can easily turn that line into 100 hrs of pay for 85 hrs of work. I have made more money since they started giving us crap lines for the same amount of work as I did before.

Did you really come to envoy thinking that management was going to be your friend? Mosey over to the Major Forums and listen to some of the things they ***** about. If you expect to ever work for an airline were your managers are your buddy and don't try to lie and cheat you, you are in for a rude awakening. Even the Southwest guys get ****ed offed about some of the stuff that goes on. That is one reason, I really wish you would jump over to PSA or Mesa. Once in the fire, you may realize the pot wasn't as bad as you thought.

If you really work at Envoy (the jury is out on that due to your lack of desire to answer some simple questions), and you feel it sucks so badly... Why are you still there, preaching to everyone to stay away? No offense, but that makes no sense.

Envoy ALPA Upgrade/Flow info
 

Bunch of go dda mn whiners. Quit already. The usual bs of all talk and putting no effort into effecting change or making useful suggestions. Just complain, complain... You sound just like those tools on the other ENY forums. Oh wait, you probably are the apocalyptic bunch. Same MO, same talk. Got banned there repeatedly. Pity it's so easy to create a new ID and start the same crap all over again.

I think you are missing the frustration of the line pilots. It's not a, you don't like it quit situation. I think most just want to work for a good airline. Be treated fairly, earn a living, and enjoy being at work.

Pretty much true. Some rules are certainly better at a Major but Envoy really wasn't that bad. The bad is the bottom people that can't get off reserve. 3 years on reserve frustrated too many people so they left and I can't blame them. If things are moving forward which it may be here soon people will stop quitting so fast.
The flow is a great thing to have in your back pocket. I know a lot of guys that wish they had flow because they interviewed and didn't get the job. They can re interview but not everyone is going to to go straight to Delta or UAL.
If it was me and I truly have kick butt resume then sure might as well go for fastest PIC. If your resume is mediocre or less the flow will be nice to fall back on. Nothing says you can't apply at Delta or UAL.
Now if you live in a non Envoy base.. that's another animal. Commuting sux.

I'm a line pilot here. I'm as frustrated at the games they play as anyone else. There's a difference between being frustrated vs spewing hatred of the airline you work for. One is just typical pilot bi tching. The other needs to consider finding a different job. I've worked with toxic people like that. Trapped in a flight deck with an angry ranter makes for a sh it trip, and these are the guys that FO's call in sick to avoid.

That I can understand for a moment you sounded like crew scheduling. Don't like it, file a grievance.

Yes, being a child about frustrations in the cockpit is the wrong thing to do. It's managements fault for making things toxic and the captain's fault for allowing them in the cockpit.

Just be empathetic. Your captain undoubtedly had it much worse than you. Envoy will hopefully be better for you than it ever will for him.

My frustration is they are bragging about controllable cancelactions. Mickey Mouse Could run a way over staffed airline. Managment better have 0%. I hope management is fixing the issues. I saw in an email today the union got in front for a judge to looking into the airlines reserve issues. With pre assignment of 4am raps to all day 1 reserve pilots.