Having been at American Eagle (now Envoy) and at Mesa I can tell you for a fact that reserve at Envoy is wwwwwaaaaaayyyyyyy better than Mesa.

Pray tell, how is 2+ years of reserve better than 2-3 months? Other than Mesa's being ready, and Envoy's being short or long, I mean.

I wouldn't say every LCC pilot, many I know at the LCCs are content and not going anywhere.. but yeah, thats a good point.. a lot of them, especially LCC FO's are definitely still competing for those remaining DAL/UAL slots as well.

I know countless people that have gone from regional to LCC, Cargo, and overseas.. but literally only personally know a handful of non military background pilots (out of an exceptionally qualified, highly experienced group of regional pilots) that have gone to UAL, even less of them to DAL. It is a lot harder than new hires coming into this industry think. (Even with checking all the boxes, perfect training records, TPIC, many thousands of hours, job fairs, check airman time, networking, advanced degrees, hundreds of hours volunteering. Many, many people I know, including myself, never even get the interview call from those 2).

This is why I am fortunate to have the AA flow through coming up very soon being at Envoy, just show up to class when assigned and hopefully be done with the stress of this job hunting/seniority recycling crap for the next 30 years. No need to waste another 3-5 years at an LCC being junior all over again. No more wasted time and money on job fairs, no more competition and jumping through all the hoops to try and to get lucky and convince some HR rep to "maybe" give me an AA/DAL/UAL interview one day. It has been a long road of crap and regional hell to get to this point but the flow is finally working.

This. The flow is not the best thing in the world but there are 10+ year captains at every regional waiting for a call from AA/DAL/UAL. At the WOs, at least you just wait your turn and go to class. In the meantime you can still apply to all 3. People are still getting hired outside of the flow from envoy to AA. I myself live at an American base and don't want to move. Being at envoy gives me the opportunity to not have to commute the rest of my life. With the limited amount of AA street hires, getting on without the flow will continue to be very challenging.

Envoy doesn't have long call, only short and ready. Lots and lots of ready. They took apart a bag room at ORD to make room for more "quiet and comfortable" seating for extra ready reserves.

Don't forget 0400 Raps on day 1!

Good Luck!

Which makes my question even more valid... Why sit reserve for 2+ years vs. 2-3 months for about the same pay?

It's not even close to the same pay. Envoy 1st year is $25/hr with a $5,000 bonus. Mesa is $22/hr and no bonus.

Envoy will be providing iPads beginning sometime this quarter. Mesa requires you to buy your own.

Envoy 2nd year pays $34/hr. Mesa 2nd year $29/hr.

Envoy per diem is $1.85/hr. Mesa per diem is $1.47/hr.

I don't have the exact numbers on health insurance, but suffice to say Envoy's plans are decent, and Mesa's are so expensive, they're not affordable for someone trying to cover their family.

Envoy also the intangible benefits of better flight benefits and jumpseat priority on AA. And the possibility to flow to AA after a while.

Reserve at Envoy might be longer, but with proffering for open time, you still get to pick trips or try and sit at home. It works out for commuters and home based guys pretty well actually.

I'm not trying to knock Mesa here, just pointing out that you guys are way behind an average contract.


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Subject to YMMV

Bob it sounds like you have all the answers. Just go to Mesa and perpetuate the worst contract in the industry. Worst by a fair margin. You need to ask yourself if you get stuck, where would you rather be? Several years at sub-$30/hour pay and insurance you can't afford sounds great.