Won't be a cut if they decide to give the new hires the 20K/2yr retention bonuses on their 2nd year like the other current FO's are getting. With the way things are going I really doubt they make people take a pay cut on year 2.

They are going to have to do something.

So anyone currently in training is not given the FO retention bonus OR the 15k sign bonus making them 10k less first year than anyone else


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Well, that is hopeful speculation. In the interim, a 4 year calculation of Envoy total earnings compared to other regionals would seem to be helpful in providing direct facts for comparison. Of course, other regionals have upgrades mush faster then 4 years, but a straight comparison of serving 4 years as an F/O at various regionals would be worthwhile.

For the most part PSA, PDT and Envoy mgt have found a workable solution for predictable CA attrition. I'm sure you can partially vouch for this but your list of realistic choices outside of waiting for the flow was probably pretty short as time went on. Regardless of which WO you can predict CA attrition within a couple of bodies each month. FOs are a whole different animal. They don't have enough invested to be either loyal or enamored by some of the side benefits that do come with WO airlines. At this stage in the game they are rightfully money driven. Watching AAG nickel their way towards endeavor and republic levels is painful but will eventually happen.

In the end AAG will get their metered attrition at the top but it'll cost them some coin to stop the uncontrollable churn on the bottom. When that happens is the question.

It worked on eaglefly. He gave AMR almost 25 years slumming it at Eagle before he was finally moved over to AA. That accounts for a great deal of his personality that we all know and love.

Have to disagree to some degree. Projected future retirements/hiring at legacies will move more captains out then just a few, but yes, the attrition there will be slower as once a captain, more pilots will slum it longer for that carrot in the distance that appears closer then it really is. But since F/O staffing will be strong to outside carriers, more of which will get non AA legacy slots too, the lack of balance in staffing (more captains then F/O's), combined with few new-hires means a shrinking carrier which means more captains back to F/O and more F/O's not seeing captain for longer and guys like FlameNSky twist in the wind for a day that wont come for many years.

Some will then jump to LCC's also losing pilots to legacies including AA, while others remain frozen and unable to make a decision and wallow in their own misery. Bottom line I think is that the WO's could be a bust, especially if they have no choice but to consolidate (AKA burning the furniture to heat the house) which means on top of all that, a diluted flow for those that think their carrier is somehow "special" in the eyes of AAG or should be.

Instability breeds uncertainty and uncertainty breeds instability. It's a nasty catch-22, for sure.

Considering most of the 2000"s were littered with bodies in the furlough pen and stagnation throughout the industry, driving to work for $10K/month wasn't slumming it too bad. Our schedules and treatment then was a far cry from the cesspool it sounds like now.

I can only image what your personality will be like after another 6-7 years in your slum considering where it is today. Good Luck ! ;)

About 200 numbers to go, I like my chances. ;) Maybe when I get over there, you can give me a tour of the crew room and tell me the secret to moving on after Eagle.

Sure you do. ;) It would be a waste of time telling you secrets as we both know you'll be posting here well after you leave Envoy, if you pass training that is.