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-   -   Envoy union boss not happy with bonuses: (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/95586-envoy-union-boss-not-happy-bonuses.html)

amcnd 06-17-2016 12:04 PM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 2146778)
And honestly, a lot of lawyers only make about as much as a 5 or 6 year regional CA. And doctors as much as a senior mainline FO. Not the best of comparisons if you ask me.

I know a lot of Nurses that make more then the Doctor they work for!! Doctors have to have a lot of insurance!!!

CaptPappy 06-17-2016 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by Mistek89 (Post 2146787)
2 year commitment on the bonus . If you leave prior you owe them 15k

Not sure if that was directed at me, but committing to two years after a sign-on bonus is much better than paying 10k to get a CJO at a regional.
(I was there during the dark ages of PFT. I have never seen the industry so vibrant)

And after further review, it appears the sign-on bonus for prior 135/121 experience is capped at 10k.

minimwage4 06-17-2016 12:21 PM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 2146778)
And honestly, a lot of lawyers only make about as much as a 5 or 6 year regional CA. And doctors as much as a senior mainline FO. Not the best of comparisons if you ask me.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/27/pf/jobs/doctors-pay/

It's 2016. Try about 400k as a doc. And most of them just make sure aunt Jenny doesn't have ingrown nails.

Don't know when you last checked salary ranges but piloting isn't even top 50 anymore.

Apokleros 06-17-2016 12:34 PM

They will have to offer a $30000 sign-on bonus plus all the benefits that my current regional offers so that I would be willing to consider the possibility of jumping ship to either Envoy, PSA or Piedmont.

chrisreedrules 06-17-2016 12:50 PM


Originally Posted by minimwage4 (Post 2146807)
Where doctors' pay is the highest and the lowest - Jan. 27, 2016

It's 2016. Try about 400k as a doc. And most of them just make sure aunt Jenny doesn't have ingrown nails.

Don't know when you last checked salary ranges but piloting isn't even top 50 anymore.

Most of the data in those analysis are skewed. I know two doctors. Both out of their residency. Neither make close to $400,000. They each make about $250,000 - $300,000 /year. Surgeons make that much. And some certainly make more. One of my best friends dads became a health insurance advisor and gave up his own practice because of the cost of insurance.

MKUltra 06-17-2016 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 2146823)
Most of the data in those analysis are skewed. I know two doctors. Both out of their residency. Neither make close to $400,000. They each make about $250,000 - $300,000 /year. Surgeons make that much. And some certainly make more. One of my best friends dads became a health insurance advisor and gave up his own practice because of the cost of insurance.

Doctors.. like us.. right place right time.. difference between being a vascular surgeon and family doc... nothing wrong with the family doc.. but having a small practice is tough. Insurance companies are cheap, medicare/Medicaid payouts are tough and you need a dedicated staff member just to sort it all out. Office space where I live is extremely expensive. My friend is lucky if he clears 100k a year in his practice. That said, there are plenty of ways he can earn a living if he wanted to end his practice or stop practicing medicine all together. He can work in pharmaceuticals, a health director, or clinical trial coordinator. Hell, he is thinking about just opening a diner he hates his job so much.

That being said, AAG strategy is at a pivotal point and I am not sure they will be able to get in front of the 8 ball. Once they start hiring outside of the flow, I feel they will need to based on the rumors I have heard, the whole flow and the WO second rate pilot scale will take a big hit.

The WO model and second rate pay scale is great when pilots are in demand and supply outweighs need. In a RAA posting the RAA members required a bit over 5000 total new hire pilots for the 2015 calendar year. 2015 only produced less than 3000 new hires with over 35% of them being lateral moves. Therefore, there were only approximately 2000 non prior 121 new hires for RAA members. Sorry I can't look up the link or copy the data right now but its in the RAA website... public area I believe.
I would say just keep applying where you want to go every month whether your a captain or FO. Its only a matter of time when someone will get desperate enough to hire a shlob like me.

Rahlifer 06-17-2016 01:23 PM

Is a bonus still subject to a union dues deduction? If not, THAT is the real reason why a union boss would object to it.

WesternSkies 06-17-2016 01:27 PM

Another example of how the un-savvy get taken to school by the media.
You gush positive things here.

DilsonWic 06-17-2016 02:05 PM

The industry is different now, and changing rapidly. If AAG doesn't want to lose pilots to the JB spirit types, they need pay more, and treat pilots like humans and not slave labor.

sweetholyjesus 06-17-2016 02:25 PM


Originally Posted by chrisreedrules (Post 2146775)
To be clear, I'm not arguing against higher pay. Because it is simply what the market is demanding. But to compare us to doctors is ridiculous. We don't incur the amount of debt nor are we required to go through the same type of schooling doctors are. And this job certainly isn't brain surgery.

To only compare the amount of debt incurred between the two occupations is ridiculous. Doctors don't incur the same amount of liability if they screw up. How much is the airplane worth? How much are the passengers worth???? And then there's everything on the ground....


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