Picking a plane for Envoy
 

Hey everybody! I need help choosing priority of airframe. I want to be based in DFW but I have no idea how to pick what airframe. I know the 175 gets the smaller bonus but that doesn't make too much of a difference for me as QOL does. So my question is how do I determine the priority of my pick of aircraft at DFW and if I can't get DFW, where do I go from there to decide. Also, I'm 29 and I know that picks are based off class age and just whatever is available. Thanks!

Assuming you have the choice between 175 or 145, I'd take the 145 and the money. Home based either way, on reserve either way. Not sure if there'd be a big difference in QOL for you.

Go with the 175 if possible, but at 29 your chances are slim to none of getting it. There haven't been many guys younger than 40 getting it. That leaves you with the 145. You'll have a decent shot at getting the 145 in DFW. If you can't, LGA would be the next best choice because rsv will be way quicker than ORD. Avoid the CRJ at all costs as you won't be able to bid off of it as an FO.

Priority should be 175 DFW, 145 DFW, 145 LGA, 145 ORD.

Just put an app in for Envoy.

Noticed 2 things in this thread, Envoy bases seniority in class off of age, and also aircraft assignment?

So I'm 52, would that give me a good chance of getting DFW and the 175?

Thanks

Yeah I think you would. From what I've understood, day one of a new hire class, they put what they need or what is available up and the oldest in the class gets their pick and it goes that way all the way down to the youngest. From what I have also been told, the average glass age is around my age so with your age, unless you somehow just get unlucky and get a class with older guys, you should pretty much have your pick of whatever you want.

Thats good to hear.

Thx for the reply.

Where do you want to end up? A CL-65 type is pretty common, and doesn't really pay all that much. Get a E-170/190 type, and be willing to fly overseas, and you can make a lot more. All depends on what you want to do, and where you want to live.

Well, I'll try to clear some misinformation up from this page. When you get to class there will be 3-4 options on the board.

DFW 175, ORD CRJ, ORD 145, NY 145.

There most certainly will not be a DFW 145 option. If there is then you got extremely lucky. It's been offered once maybe twice in as long as I can remember.

Now on to choice between 175/145. If you choose the 145 the you will be in DFW very soon after IOE (1-3 months - maybe less not likely to be more)
People on here in the Envoy thread have made good arguments to choose the 145 for QOL reasons. I won't go into the details maybe you can find it but suffice it say it hinges on when we get more 175s. If those planes don't come sooner rather than later then 175 may stagnate and you will be on reserve and a junior line holder longer relative to the 145.

This is a very valid point and one that everyone starting class in the next few months need to think about. The last firm 175 delivery will be this summer. Word from the training department is the last new hire class that will go into the 175 will also be this summer. As of right now, there are no plans to take additional 175s. There's not a doubt in my mind that we will take more orders, but the question is when. I wouldn't be surprised to not get any more the rest of the year. Expect the 175 list to stagnate and reserve time for junior guys to go up significantly. Food for thought.

I do not understand this concept of stagnation on the 175. There hasn't been a 145 delivery since 2005. That fleet is very stagnant...
There is going to be attrition on all fleets. The 175 isn't going to be the growth gravy train it has been but the door isn't slamming shut on attrition either.
Pick what ever airplane gives you the base you want and the best QOL. Commuting to Reserve is terrible. If you can move to your base and drive to work you will be much happier. Having done a two leg commute to reserve previously I opted to move and drive to work this time around. My mental health is worth the move.


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The 175 has many junior FOs because they almost exclusively only offered it to new hires. This means that those pilots have a longer time to reach the seniority level to upgrade. If you end up on the bottom of the 175 list then you could find yourself parked there with no movement for quite some time.

The 175 will definitely lag a bit on attrition, depending on the options, other aircraft, etc. If no new 175s are forthcoming, I would look for about a six month stagnation late this year into middle of next year.


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E175 No doubt about it. Better type than the others plus its more advanced than the junkE145 and CRJ.

This guy is lost. Take the 145 more money and better qol. You will get off reserve quickly ando hold a good line quickly while people with your same date of hire will still be on 175 reserve.

E145 because you won't have to fly with or be associated with people who have this "god" complex about a stupid regional jet.

How is the type "better"?:rolleyes::confused:

E175 Driver is the typical Riddle guy that everyone hates flying with.

The 175 will have a huge cluster of FOs around the same seniority, meaning relative seniority will not change until those FOs start upgrading. The 145 will have a large variety of FO seniority, meaning attrition will stay relatively consistent. On the 175, once those FOs start hitting upgrade, it will move like gangbusters, but until then, no one's seniority on the equipment will really go anywhere.

Gotcha, that explains a lot...

Thread refresh....can anyone explain why the 145 is "better" ? Assume the applicant lives in Dallas and does not wish to move or commute. Applicant will be age 50 at time of hire.

why would one pay more than another, for a 1st year new hire ? Which one would be quicker to Captain ?

Thank you

There's more 145s than 175. That means better movement, better variety of schedules, better options, quicker upgrades. The 175 gravy train has stopped. I think the guys getting on now will be on reserve or at the bottom for a while. But I don't think you have any more options now anyways, they're hiring mostly into the 145 in LGA. There's the CRJ but that's in Ord and you're basically just keeping the seat warm until they get rid of the plane shortly.

The pay scale is the same for FOs regardless of equipment. The company incentivized the 145 and CRJ with an additional $5k bonus due to the SJS happening with the 175...sort of like a consolation prize. Neither is technically "quicker" to captain since you can upgrade into an aircraft you are not currently flying. Impossible to predict what will be junior in 2.5-3 years. Predicting things in the airlines involves too many variables beyond one's control.

Another thing to consider is how well you learn new things. The 175 has a few more "bells and whistles" to manage...more depth to the FMS, autothrust, VNAV, etc. These things sound nice to have, but a pilot must learn to effectively manage them. Pilots have failed transition or new hire training in the 175 due to an inability to grasp the operation of the aircraft or programming of its functions within the allotted training time. Know thyself...and don't take on more than you can chew. The 145 is a bit more forgiving. Factor in your flight experience to this point to help with the decision-making.

One important pro about the 175 is having actual coffee pots.

1. More pay (bonus money only) for the 175 because so many have SJS (shiny jet Syndrome)

2. Both, captain upgrade is base on seniority only. When you can hold the upgrade no matter the jet you will be awarded it. Junior plane right now is the CrJ, then 145, then 175..

More movement right now on the 145.

At least he removed the "Proud former member of the ERAU flight team" from his signature.....I'm embarrassed for my Alma Mater getting a bad name because of guys like him.

He's not a Riddle guy, he's just trolling. I can't believe people are taking him seriously.

Sure Nancy.:rolleyes:

That's the best you can do? I know you can troll harder.

That's definitely something to consider. I went straight from flight instructing in cessnas/a seminole to training in a 175 and to say it was a bit of jump would be a vast understatement. I made it through but it was a bit rough, especially in the beginning when you're trying to learn all the approach modes and all the autopilot functions. I think the 145 might have been an easier training program given my background.

The biggest thing to remember in training is these three words: Cooperate And Graduate. Don't be a hero and attempt to learn everything about the airplane because that's impossible to do in such a short timeframe. Just do what they tell you, pass the ride, and you can learn all you want and play with the FMS out on the line on a 4 hour trip to YYC.

I was always under the impression that the 175 is easier to learn and has less memory item. besides the approach modes how is it more difficult?

There are four memory items on the 145, and much less automation and sophistication than the 175. I went from flight instructing to the 145 and found it to be a fun plane to learn.

Thats the reason why they call it the beginners jet!:p

Systems and flying are the easy part of the job. Granted, knowbody likes being tested in training. The difficult part is applying the knowledge out on the line. Like a previous poster said, "Cooperate and graduate," and THIS will give you a good foundation for learning how to operate on "the line." An airplane is an airplane. You won't be building them. Red is bad, green is good. 175 or 145 both are excellent designs that are forgiving and created for the 250 hour pilot wonders of years past.

At least the 145 pilots can fly stabilized approaches.

It's not. If you have played video games in your life you should be good. Some older guys can't get the flying the fms part.

Can anyone comment on realistic 1st and 2nd year monthly take home pay. I know it obviously varies person to person, but perhaps a general range. Also, what are the chances of ORD out of training? Thanks

The 175 is quite a bit more complicated to learn then the 145. Three people in my systems class needed additional training during sims due to its complexity. Having studied with these three, the need for additional training was not caused by poor study habits. I personally worked with all of them regarding the airplane. This was their first jet and first auto throttle vnav capable airplane.
It just proved to be a lot for them. The program is very good but it's designed and written with the assumption that people already have some turbine experience and are used to flying the downwind of an approach at 250 kts. You add the speed of the airplane and the complexity of its automation and it's more then I think a new hire with no turbine time should be subject to.

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So you saying having prior jet time? What about experience flying a B1900 single pilot and flying your approaches close to 250 kts till 5 mile final? How would that experience fair in 175 training?

1000 times better off. Even with my turbo prop and jet experience there are still times I am saying what is it doing now. The difference between you & I and those guys in my class is, we have the instincts and experience to back out the automation and fix it using basic modes. Those guys would just keep pushing buttons hoping for the best.

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so the 145 doesn't have the green white needels bs.

If he's a captain he'll be wearing a hat and part of his brief will include the comments " let's have fun but let's not bend the airplane".