Let's be clear here, it's NOT a "let's burn the place down" mentality. But management ALREADY said there's money to be saved when SOC happens. DON'T buy into the fear tactics that a if a JCBA gets voted down, the next day ASA files for BK, the next day the judge throws the contracts out, and the next day the company goes belly up.

Maybe not here in this thread, but it's been in other threads. It's also been on that "other board", as well our message board. Even by some that claim to be a part of the ASA MEC.

Actually, Jerry bought XJT. And reference the above as far as who thinks that. We welcome and value the input that the ASA pilots contribute on our message board. But sadly, that means we get to read the trash that some of them put on there also.

Agreed, but it's in EVERY pilot's best interest to educate themselves on what's going on. Don't always count on an NC to do it for you.

1. We are all on the same team

2. Xjt being bigger than ASA means nothing because when all of ASA votes yes to a slight improvement, it will only take a small percentage of scared pussies at XJT to vote yes as well and this thing passes.

3. A note on trip trading at xjt: I can make literally 50 different strategic trades in a matter of seconds online. No submitting and waiting for approval. That is nonsense

4. You guys arguing about two crappy regional airlines with two crappy contracts is crazy. I expect a contract that is similar to a mainline and pay proportionate to the size of aircraft we fly. No more of this anything smaller than a 737 falls off a payscale cliff. I am not going to be apart of the further downfall of the profession. As long as we keep accepting downright absurd pay for the amount of responsibility we carry and the investment in both time and money it took to get here, the more outsourcing grows and the more we will be whipsawed against whoever every time the CPA comes due.

5. Reality check: We make 6% less than contract '04. If we sign a contract in 2011 it will have been seven years. 7 years with a historical average of 3% inflation per year. So lets do the math. Current XJT rates + 6% to regain concessions + 21% for seven years of inflation = 28% pay increase to MAINTAIN contract '04 buying power! I dont know about you guys but my food and life is much more expensive now then it was in '04. WAKE UP and GET SERIOUS. Start thinking about your futures in this profession and stop trying to subsidize growth and management raises with your own paycheck. The buck stops here and I am terrified that my ASA brothers dont feel the same.

Dojet,

I guess if you say its not a burn the place down mentality, then I guess I will have to take your word for it. It just comes off that way sometimes. I just hope that everyone has an open mind.

And I'm not falling for that scare tactic either. I'm worried about us fighting each other.

I guess you got me on a technicality there with who bought who. But it doesn't matter. If I hear any of that crap from the ASA guys, I will be the first to tell them they are dumb. I've been seeing the same crap coming from your side too, on here and else where. Its a shame we have those people on both our sides.

I just want us to work together and get this done and get a contract thats fair for everyone. And for the chest beating to stop, its annoying.

Nevermind.

Man it annoys me when people say "We (ASA) bought Expressjet!" Where do people come up with that crap? It just embarrasses me to be associated with those people. You cannot buy ASA stock because ASA has no money. If ASA has no money, then how did they buy another airline. The holding company acquired the two airlines and merged their certificates. It's as easy as that.

Phew........just had to vent a little.

Sorry sweptback. I know you deleted your post. But what you wrote is just too easy to pass up, so here goes. Couple things come to mind. 1) ASA needs to educate themselves on the XJT line bid/LIW system. 2) The XJT line bid/LIW is NOT the ASA system of yore:

Under XJT line bidding, Joe Pilot has a few options. He can bid his line, and get one working Christmas. When the ILIW opens up, he can drop/trade/manipulate to get it off. I saw MORE than one junior pilot do it last Christmas. If that doesn't work, Joe pilot can wait till the SLIW opens up, then do a bad day/worse day trade. I also saw more than one junior pilot do that last Christmas. You have access to the documentation, look it up.

Joe pilot can also exercise another option. He can bid the 38 lines that have Christmas off, THEN opt out into the secondary bid. When this happens, he can do a couple things. 1) Bid a relief line and request XMAS off. Might happen, might not. If not, when the SLIW opens he can try to fix it via trade or bad day/worse day. The other option is to bid a reserve line that has XMAS off. IF Joe pilot is that senior, he can hold either a long call reserve line, or a late call/commutable reserve line that has XMAS off. And if he's a commuter, he can take advantage of the APW to minimize any hotel/crashpad time he'll incur by doing so.

Reference the above. Can an unstacked PBS bidding pilot have the options I outlined above? I welcome a retort/reply/rebuttal. But ONLY if it's one based on knowledge of the XJT line bid/LIW system. NOT one based on one's experience of the previous ASA line bid system.

Your turn.

It's nice to see that somebody gets it.

I'm confused how this is different than the pbs system we have? I put on sheet one what I want..if it cannot build be what I want it goes to my second sheet. I bid a different way...try another angle. No luck...cool. Go to my third sheet. If you don't want to do it this way....bid reserve to get the days off you need. After all that...u didint get what you need...ok...trade, drop, swap...whatever...all in opentime and all same day...and sometimes instant. What's the big deal?

Well, it's pretty bad form to reply to a deleted post. Usually when somebody deletes a post they don't want it quoted, either. But since you obviously need to be "the man" I'll let you have your fun on the interwebs.

I deleted it mainly because it was a fairly unrealistic scenario. Under our PBS you can control every aspect of the bidding process, even unstacking (we have an unstack bidsheet that you can preference). The logic of the PBS will prevent unstacking from even happening, assuming you bid to your seniority in preferences. Under the unlikely event that unstacking happens, we have contractual limits on how many people can be affected.

I still don't think you understand that unstacking happens on line building before the lines are even bid upon. I don't care who builds the lines, neither the company or the union will be satisfied with all the trips left over falling on the same days. They would rebuild the lines, shuffle things around, until the distribution was a bit more uniform. Then you can do your magic in open time, LIW, whatever, but you'll still get whatever line the company chooses to build for you if nothing goes through.

If you guys seriously (and I truly dispute this) can bid one line working weekends and holidays, completely drop it and build another line from the pot that has all the desirable days off, then why do you even bid for lines?

I understand that your complaint is that there's a lot of pitfalls and gotchas in PBS. I understand that you have seen PBS at pilot groups that don't have the workrules that we do go awry. But, I will say this. I have averaged 2-3 additional days off under PBS so far (compared to the lines the company used to build), and have the same amount of credit per month. I have literally doubled my vacation time under PBS. How is that bad in any way?

One last question for you. Have you ever worked under a PBS? What system was it? If not, where are these negative views coming from? CAL?

So for the guys that do get unstacked, it's basically "tough sh1T"? Not the case with line bid. Again, find me some language in the XJT CBA that comes anywhere near what unstacking is.

So you've talked to the XJT scheduling committee rep and seen how XJT does it? I'll say it AGAIN, the XJT line bid/LIW system is NOT the one you had at ASA. How many times does that have to be repeated?

See above.

Again, just like you expect XJT to understand PBS, you should try to understand XJT's system. Instead of calling B.S. on it.

Yep, that is good for you guys. AGAIN, talk to the XJT scheduling chair. There's just NO WAY possible the current PBS system will work with our CBA. Which just brings the discussion back full circle, inheriting it will be ANOTHER concession for the majority of pilots on the combined list.

Have you ever worked under the XJT line bidding system? Because where does all the ignorance about it come from?

And if you want to sling names, that I purposely DIDN'T quote, have at it man.