New Variable Benefit Plan Modeler
06-07-2018, 08:13 PM
#221
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: FDX 767 FO
Posts: 817
Originally Posted by kronan
Why Yes, I did read your post.
Assuming you're referring to the numbers you posted, which I can't quite make sense of.
Can't quite figure out what equipment you're on Earning 175k\year at 850 CHs.
And, can't quite figure out how you figure you're Losing Out.
As a rehash,
you're current high 5 is 130k. Your projected future A plan Pension is 88k.
The VB numbers you provided were reduced to a projected 75k, to account for your expected reduced flying for QOL reasons.
So, math in public here, but you're accumulated A plan pension is 10% of your current FAE, or 13k
Your projected VBP is 75k
So your combined projected pension is 88k.
While I applaud your avoidance of the all mighty $$, I would encourage you to return to a full work schedule sooner rather than later.
Extrapolating out you are foregoing tens of thousands of B fund accumulations, and even worse, approaching a time in life where many of your peers have found themselves sitting on the sidelines-due to unexpected health issues.
You are an accident away from never operating as a pilot again, and while our disability coverage is great, it's always better starting it from a higher value.
That being said, an extra day or two at home can be absolutely priceless.
Assuming you're referring to the numbers you posted, which I can't quite make sense of.
Can't quite figure out what equipment you're on Earning 175k\year at 850 CHs.
And, can't quite figure out how you figure you're Losing Out.
As a rehash,
you're current high 5 is 130k. Your projected future A plan Pension is 88k.
The VB numbers you provided were reduced to a projected 75k, to account for your expected reduced flying for QOL reasons.
So, math in public here, but you're accumulated A plan pension is 10% of your current FAE, or 13k
Your projected VBP is 75k
So your combined projected pension is 88k.
While I applaud your avoidance of the all mighty $$, I would encourage you to return to a full work schedule sooner rather than later.
Extrapolating out you are foregoing tens of thousands of B fund accumulations, and even worse, approaching a time in life where many of your peers have found themselves sitting on the sidelines-due to unexpected health issues.
You are an accident away from never operating as a pilot again, and while our disability coverage is great, it's always better starting it from a higher value.
That being said, an extra day or two at home can be absolutely priceless.
$175K was a small plus up from my 2017 total December paycheck total. 2017 is the most I had worked in a year and included the 76 FO Passover pay and a big (yuge) month during training thanks to School House cash gouge. I’m on track to work less this year as I have in years past.
Yes, $88K is the existing plan.
Yes, $13K is my accumulated A plan.
The $75K I stated is my accumulated A plan plus 85% of the Future Service Pension. This is my worst case. You are double counting my accumulated A Plan in your math above.
VBP Modeler...worst case number is $75K total compensation...best case number is $95K total compensation. All I have to do to get it is upgrade on their timeline and be a WB Capt until I retire.
I sent a pic of my VBP numbers to my block rep and we discussed my methodology. He looked at it and agreed I was doing it correctly.
To be clear....I’m not avoiding dollars. I just don’t chase them. If I need to be home, I’m home. I don’t work how you think I should. I’m fine with that. I do me and you do you.
No pilot left behind is what they say....we’ll see.
06-08-2018, 08:49 AM
#222
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,224
Originally Posted by kronan
For the life of me I can't understand the Angst of this plan will benefit X demographic.
A nameless faceless them.
People who took My Capt Slot away when the Age changed...well, news flash, that nameless faceless demographic is long gone now.
And there's not a proposed plan out there that Won't benefit the top 10, 20, 30% of the crew force. Whichever demographic it is that has your knickers in a twist will benefit from Any Improvement in our A plan. Whether it's a High 5 Earnings Cap improvement, an Extra 1% for YOS over 25, an FDA Calculation.
Doesn't matter what it is, they'll benefit.
The question is how does it Benefit You. It's a Pension, not a Retirement cake with only so many pieces. We don't have to cut pieces of the cake into smaller pieces if someone with 25 YOS continues working.
As to the Newhires being rich in 30 years because their Pay is in the 650-800k range...well, if it's Not that high by then we've Sorely failed in negotiations. If we just stay on the 3% slope, pay should've more than doubled by then.
And personally, as Interest rates return to their norms--I'm thinking Inflation isn't going to be the nice tame relatively stable 1.5'sh% it has been recently...it's going to be closer to 3 during our next S6 negotiations. So, for me, thinking the min pay slope is going to be in the 3.5-4.5% ball park
A nameless faceless them.
People who took My Capt Slot away when the Age changed...well, news flash, that nameless faceless demographic is long gone now.
And there's not a proposed plan out there that Won't benefit the top 10, 20, 30% of the crew force. Whichever demographic it is that has your knickers in a twist will benefit from Any Improvement in our A plan. Whether it's a High 5 Earnings Cap improvement, an Extra 1% for YOS over 25, an FDA Calculation.
Doesn't matter what it is, they'll benefit.
The question is how does it Benefit You. It's a Pension, not a Retirement cake with only so many pieces. We don't have to cut pieces of the cake into smaller pieces if someone with 25 YOS continues working.
As to the Newhires being rich in 30 years because their Pay is in the 650-800k range...well, if it's Not that high by then we've Sorely failed in negotiations. If we just stay on the 3% slope, pay should've more than doubled by then.
And personally, as Interest rates return to their norms--I'm thinking Inflation isn't going to be the nice tame relatively stable 1.5'sh% it has been recently...it's going to be closer to 3 during our next S6 negotiations. So, for me, thinking the min pay slope is going to be in the 3.5-4.5% ball park
So what, just dues money? If I remember correctly, we ran out of money last time we negotiated a contract. We all know it’s a major reason we accepted this contract. So, maybe it’s important that we don’t squander our money?
If people want to switch to a high B plan, I’m ok with that. They can play the market to their hearts content. We should have choices.
One size fits all doesn’t necessarily benefit all of us. Given the choice, I’d keep my current plan rather than switch to the VB plan. The union fell in love with this plan and just can’t accept failure at this point.
There are lots of assumptions. What if the market takes a long term major dip? What if the $275 K limit doesn’t go up, or is lowered? What if pay stagnates and we don’t continue to see 3% raises?
We’ve got a great retirement plan now. We just need to improve it. Flat dollar, profit sharing, increased multiplier (or higher FAE), increased B fund (cash over cap), etc.
I’d push hard for profit sharing. Want the pilots onboard with the new fuel policy? Give them a reason to want to lower costs. If the company does well, so do all of us. It helps all of the pilot force, from young to old.
06-08-2018, 11:51 AM
#223
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by golfandfly
If people want to switch to a high B plan, I’m ok with that. They can play the market to their hearts content. We should have choices.
One size fits all doesn’t necessarily benefit all of us. Given the choice, I’d keep my current plan rather than switch to the VB plan. The union fell in love with this plan and just can’t accept failure at this point.
There are lots of assumptions. What if the market takes a long term major dip? What if the $275 K limit doesn’t go up, or is lowered? What if pay stagnates and we don’t continue to see 3% raises?
We’ve got a great retirement plan now. We just need to improve it. Flat dollar, profit sharing, increased multiplier (or higher FAE), increased B fund (cash over cap), etc.
I’d push hard for profit sharing. Want the pilots onboard with the new fuel policy? Give them a reason to want to lower costs. If the company does well, so do all of us. It helps all of the pilot force, from young to old.
One size fits all doesn’t necessarily benefit all of us. Given the choice, I’d keep my current plan rather than switch to the VB plan. The union fell in love with this plan and just can’t accept failure at this point.
There are lots of assumptions. What if the market takes a long term major dip? What if the $275 K limit doesn’t go up, or is lowered? What if pay stagnates and we don’t continue to see 3% raises?
We’ve got a great retirement plan now. We just need to improve it. Flat dollar, profit sharing, increased multiplier (or higher FAE), increased B fund (cash over cap), etc.
I’d push hard for profit sharing. Want the pilots onboard with the new fuel policy? Give them a reason to want to lower costs. If the company does well, so do all of us. It helps all of the pilot force, from young to old.
I am all for improving the current A Plan but I have serious doubts that the company will do that without something significant in return. We can either be willing to give up that "something significant" or we can look for other ways to improve our overall retirement. Many of the items you mentioned are ways that could be explored.
It does not, however, have to be an "all or nothing". Why kill one of the last A Plans out there just because it has limitations? Account for those limitations and do other things to compensate for them.
Over time, the A Plan will die on the vine...but it will be a slow death...allowing people time to adjust their plans without pulling the rug out from under them.
06-08-2018, 08:29 PM
#226
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,224
Originally Posted by kronan
It's NOT a High B plan.
It's a Defined Benefit plan
It's a Defined Benefit plan
Just another option for those that would rather have a large B fund instead of an A fund. If I were a thirty year old new hire, I’d certainly consider a large cash over cap B fund as opposed to our current plan. Not sure what that number would have to be, you’d have to run the numbers. But if those mega salaries materialize that the modeler assumes, a 20% cash over cap B fund could dwarf our current plan. You could retire with a pile of cash (in your name).
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
