Originally Posted by Fr8Master
(Post 3134772)
I suppose I wasn’t clear. What I’m trying to convey is that when demand picks up, planes will fly which in turn will increase credit hours. Pay cuts, however, don’t ever (historically) snap back automatically as demand increases, they have to be bargained back...sometimes at the expense of work rules. My point is, lower bid line credit hours are preferential in my eyes over any other concessions.
if business is down, something HAS to give otherwise a company will go bankrupt. Nobody is going to fly empty planes. Reducing credit hours would be my vote and I’m glad we have a version of that. Thanks for the clarification. My understanding on one of the issues with 4a2b is that it didn’t have “snap back” language back then. I suppose they could have snap back language for pay rates or anything else for that matter. And I’m pretty sure they do. Which means that that snap back language is imperative. In our case, we have that language already in place so in that sense I agree with you that it isn’t hard to get it back since it already exist. |
Originally Posted by FXLAX
(Post 3134785)
Thanks for the clarification. My understanding on one of the issues with 4a2b is that it didn’t have “snap back” language back then. I suppose they could have snap back language for pay rates or anything else for that matter. And I’m pretty sure they do. Which means that that snap back language is imperative. In our case, we have that language already in place so in that sense I agree with you that it isn’t hard to get it back since it already exist.
I cant believe United is about to divide the group into 1/3s |
Originally Posted by Noworkallplay
(Post 3134826)
4a2c was the addition in 2015. It evens the playing field and doesn't allow a huge credit difference in each seat or fleet. It also restricts picking up trips.
I cant believe United is about to divide the group into 1/3s You obviously either haven't read, or have the ability to comprehend 4a2c. What you stated simply isn't true. |
How does 4.A.2.c not even the playing field? It appears to limit 85% of lines to a 13 credit hour spread and 95% of the lines to a 16 credit hour spread system wide.
|
Originally Posted by Check6Viper
(Post 3134872)
How does 4.A.2.c not even the playing field? It appears to limit 85% of lines to a 13 credit hour spread and 95% of the lines to a 16 credit hour spread system wide.
|
Originally Posted by Check6Viper
(Post 3134872)
How does 4.A.2.c not even the playing field? It appears to limit 85% of lines to a 13 credit hour spread and 95% of the lines to a 16 credit hour spread system wide.
First, it doesn't include bid packs with less than 100 pilots. So, ANC, IND, LAX, CGN, and HKG are all excluded. Then you take the 5% that are allowed to be more than 16 hours, and you have around 700 pilots that have no restriction. If you take out the 85% that are limited to a 13 hour spread, you have almost 1200 pilots that can have 16 hours or more in monthly BLG even before you add in carry over. That doesn't sound like a very even playing field to me. Would you think it was even if you were making 60 hours BLG while another pilot was consistently make 76 hours or more BLG? Hey NoWork, maybe you could be on one of those bid packs that gets the extra flying since you like to brag about your $320K plus paycheck your third year. You obviously like to pick up as much extra flying as you can. I doubt that will ever change regardless of the environment we are in. |
Originally Posted by FXLAX
(Post 3134727)
I wasn’t here for 4a2b but everything I hear (bad) is that it wasn’t evenly applied. It only applied to pilots in some seats and not others. So it wasn’t based entirely on seniority but it seemed to have caused animosity, nonetheless and rightfully so I feel. I don’t know if it caused downgrades but that would’ve been a double pay cut. Does your TA prevent downgrades and displacements?
We’re roughly looking at 10% pay/hours cut top 1/3, 20% middle and 50% bottom 1/3 (because it’s better than 0% and furloughed goes the logic). |
Originally Posted by rvfanatic
(Post 3134948)
We’ve had several displacements at UAL to get us ready to furlough next month. Basically, if the TA is approved, top 2/3 displacements are cancelled and guys are pay protected to their original seat. Bottom 1/3 guys will still be displaced.
We’re roughly looking at 10% pay/hours cut top 1/3, 20% middle and 50% bottom 1/3 (because it’s better than 0% and furloughed goes the logic). Lesson learned from FedEx is it was good to save junior pilots (company couldn't train pilots fast enough to really furlough cost effectively many will say meaning mgt really just saved money) but need ensure all pilots work less days and have clear exit language! Also there was much angst between pilots because the pay was still very wide spread. But we didn't codify it by dividing seniority list into thirds either. |
Originally Posted by pinseeker
(Post 3134902)
First, it doesn't include bid packs with less than 100 pilots. So, ANC, IND, LAX, CGN, and HKG are all excluded. Then you take the 5% that are allowed to be more than 16 hours, and you have around 700 pilots that have no restriction. If you take out the 85% that are limited to a 13 hour spread, you have almost 1200 pilots that can have 16 hours or more in monthly BLG even before you add in carry over. That doesn't sound like a very even playing field to me. Would you think it was even if you were making 60 hours BLG while another pilot was consistently make 76 hours or more BLG?
Hey NoWork, maybe you could be on one of those bid packs that gets the extra flying since you like to brag about your $320K plus paycheck your third year. You obviously like to pick up as much extra flying as you can. I doubt that will ever change regardless of the environment we are in. The Jr guys are currently making 15 hours less a month than the senior guys. The jr guys are currently working more days for the same pay. 4.a.2.c adds hard limits that previously were not in place. Go look at the bid pack splits. Plus 4.a.2.c added a restriction on no volunteer flying. It also added language for the negotiations of early retirement packages and voluntary leaves. It was definitely a big upgrade. |
Originally Posted by Noworkallplay
(Post 3135205)
The Jr guys are currently making 15 hours less a month than the senior guys. The jr guys are currently working more days for the same pay. 4.a.2.c adds hard limits that previously were not in place. Go look at the bid pack splits. Plus 4.a.2.c added a restriction on no volunteer flying. It also added language for the negotiations of early retirement packages and voluntary leaves. It was definitely a big upgrade.
While I agree that the language now is better than 2006, that still doesn't negate the facts that I posted. Your response is again false and misleading. Maybe your name should be NoClueAllDay! |
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:30 PM. |
User Alert System provided by
Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) -
vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Website Copyright ©2000 - 2017 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands