2% pay raise in Oct 2020
08-24-2020 | 05:34 PM
#81
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,481
Likes: 23
From: Crewmember
Well, one reason might be that we wasted negotiating capital in the last contract to increase first year pay for ungrateful new hires like yourself.
Seriously? You will eventually retire. The company has kicked this can down the road far enough and it is time to pay the piper on retirement.
We aren't in negotiations, we aren't in a work action, so what's your beef with flying draft? If you don't want to, don't, but don't crap on people who do. It's a choice, pure and simple.
Oh, and we turned down the opportunity to F you on retirement in the last contract, at our expense, so you should also be thankful for that.
Seriously? You will eventually retire. The company has kicked this can down the road far enough and it is time to pay the piper on retirement.
We aren't in negotiations, we aren't in a work action, so what's your beef with flying draft? If you don't want to, don't, but don't crap on people who do. It's a choice, pure and simple.
Oh, and we turned down the opportunity to F you on retirement in the last contract, at our expense, so you should also be thankful for that.
08-24-2020 | 07:43 PM
#82
Banned
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
Likes: 0
Well, one reason might be that we wasted negotiating capital in the last contract to increase first year pay for ungrateful new hires like yourself.
Seriously? You will eventually retire. The company has kicked this can down the road far enough and it is time to pay the piper on retirement.
We aren't in negotiations, we aren't in a work action, so what's your beef with flying draft? If you don't want to, don't, but don't crap on people who do. It's a choice, pure and simple.
Oh, and we turned down the opportunity to F you on retirement in the last contract, at our expense, so you should also be thankful for that.
Seriously? You will eventually retire. The company has kicked this can down the road far enough and it is time to pay the piper on retirement.
We aren't in negotiations, we aren't in a work action, so what's your beef with flying draft? If you don't want to, don't, but don't crap on people who do. It's a choice, pure and simple.
Oh, and we turned down the opportunity to F you on retirement in the last contract, at our expense, so you should also be thankful for that.
I highly doubt much capital was spent to pay us 4K a month in training and be around legacy industry bottom for first year pay. Plus we have no hotel paid for like other majors. Not a gripe, but get real on spending capital. I’m sure the company gladly agreed to those terms.
You didn’t have the opportunity to F us last contract infact just the opposite. The company offered us a substantial B only plan at 20% + uncapped. For younger pilots with time value of money that’s a winner over a 30 + year frozen A plan. The reason it was not looked at was it would have divided the group and it doesn’t help the older group. So if anything turning it down screwed the younger group.
I have been told the stories of the pilot groups attitude and actions as a whole when it comes to draft during negotiations. The group as a whole didn’t hold the line then and they won’t do it again. A few will always try but 70% of this group won’t blink an eye and continuing slopping from the trough of draft. Heck they fight over it at straight pay with OTP/PNP in normal times.
Im not trying to be snarky just very clearly don’t agree with your points.
08-25-2020 | 03:31 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,804
Likes: 0
I highly doubt much capital was spent to pay us 4K a month in training and be around legacy industry bottom for first year pay. Plus we have no hotel paid for like other majors. Not a gripe, but get real on spending capital. I’m sure the company gladly agreed to those terms.
You didn’t have the opportunity to F us last contract infact just the opposite. The company offered us a substantial B only plan at 20% + uncapped. For younger pilots with time value of money that’s a winner over a 30 + year frozen A plan. The reason it was not looked at was it would have divided the group and it doesn’t help the older group. So if anything turning it down screwed the younger group.
I have been told the stories of the pilot groups attitude and actions as a whole when it comes to draft during negotiations. The group as a whole didn’t hold the line then and they won’t do it again. A few will always try but 70% of this group won’t blink an eye and continuing slopping from the trough of draft. Heck they fight over it at straight pay with OTP/PNP in normal times.
Im not trying to be snarky just very clearly don’t agree with your points.
You didn’t have the opportunity to F us last contract infact just the opposite. The company offered us a substantial B only plan at 20% + uncapped. For younger pilots with time value of money that’s a winner over a 30 + year frozen A plan. The reason it was not looked at was it would have divided the group and it doesn’t help the older group. So if anything turning it down screwed the younger group.
I have been told the stories of the pilot groups attitude and actions as a whole when it comes to draft during negotiations. The group as a whole didn’t hold the line then and they won’t do it again. A few will always try but 70% of this group won’t blink an eye and continuing slopping from the trough of draft. Heck they fight over it at straight pay with OTP/PNP in normal times.
Im not trying to be snarky just very clearly don’t agree with your points.
Pretty sure I haven't agreed with anything you have posted so far, you are so far out of touch with what happened and what is happening.
08-25-2020 | 04:16 AM
#85
Banned
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
Likes: 0
How do you know what was offered - wee you on the negotiating committee? Thought you said you were not even here to vote on it. I m starting to think you are just a troll.
Pretty sure I haven't agreed with anything you have posted so far, you are so far out of touch with what happened and what is happening.
Pretty sure I haven't agreed with anything you have posted so far, you are so far out of touch with what happened and what is happening.
08-25-2020 | 04:38 AM
#86
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 41
Likes: 0
Nowork,
After reading your posts, I’m very surprised we work at the same airline. I too recently came from another major and have an experience and perspective that is 180 out from yours in terms of what FedEx provides for me today and what I hope for it to provide in my retirement years. Even if everyone suspended the influence of Covid on the economy and how the big three are forecast to furlough nearly 10k of our pilot brethren, how is this gig not a substantially better flying position than what was over there ‘pre-rona’?
Your comments lead me to believe that you are unhappy and angry with those about to retire. The very people that built up THE industry leading contract, QOL, pay and retirement. In my opinion, focusing on 4k a month in training and no hotel is losing the forest for the trees. Further you are not even comparing apples to apples, at AA you didn't get hotel or per diem if you did training in your base OR if you lived within 50 miles of the training facility. Even counting training pay, my first year at FedEx eclipsed AA. And recently, outside of a negotiation, our Captains fought for and got hotels for BI.
The efforts of those Captains further reflects the professionals I fly with on the line. Actions like BI hotels and the fact I never pay for food or drinks because the boss is always buying, aren’t dividing us as you say, but uniting us together so we can stop our in-fighting and focus on what matters.
I like this job, I like this company, and I’m grateful to be here to do it. So, I do the walk around, fold the napkin on the water bottle, make the coffee and back up the guy or gal sitting to my left as best I can and in exchange I get to learn how to fly in this system and most importantly learn how make this job last for my next 30 years so someday I can hopefully pass along a fantastic job to the next generation.
After reading your posts, I’m very surprised we work at the same airline. I too recently came from another major and have an experience and perspective that is 180 out from yours in terms of what FedEx provides for me today and what I hope for it to provide in my retirement years. Even if everyone suspended the influence of Covid on the economy and how the big three are forecast to furlough nearly 10k of our pilot brethren, how is this gig not a substantially better flying position than what was over there ‘pre-rona’?
Your comments lead me to believe that you are unhappy and angry with those about to retire. The very people that built up THE industry leading contract, QOL, pay and retirement. In my opinion, focusing on 4k a month in training and no hotel is losing the forest for the trees. Further you are not even comparing apples to apples, at AA you didn't get hotel or per diem if you did training in your base OR if you lived within 50 miles of the training facility. Even counting training pay, my first year at FedEx eclipsed AA. And recently, outside of a negotiation, our Captains fought for and got hotels for BI.
The efforts of those Captains further reflects the professionals I fly with on the line. Actions like BI hotels and the fact I never pay for food or drinks because the boss is always buying, aren’t dividing us as you say, but uniting us together so we can stop our in-fighting and focus on what matters.
I like this job, I like this company, and I’m grateful to be here to do it. So, I do the walk around, fold the napkin on the water bottle, make the coffee and back up the guy or gal sitting to my left as best I can and in exchange I get to learn how to fly in this system and most importantly learn how make this job last for my next 30 years so someday I can hopefully pass along a fantastic job to the next generation.
08-25-2020 | 04:41 AM
#87
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,357
Likes: 133
How to keep everyone happy is almost impossible unless the company gave us an unlimited checkbook for negotiations.
So not an easy solution. For the older pilots this next contract might be the contract they retire under so they need it to carry them through all their retirement. You however will have many contracts to improve your retirement. Seems like you want it all on this next contract.
if you were 60 or older would you want only a 20% B Fund and no a plan? Did not think so.
You should do some math on a 20% b fund only with current tax limitations and our current 9% and $130,000 after retirement. If you use a realistic market growth you will find our current combination is way better.
08-25-2020 | 04:44 AM
#88
Fill'er Up Again
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 1
From: Scarebus Captain
Nowork,
After reading your posts, I’m very surprised we work at the same airline. I too recently came from another major and have an experience and perspective that is 180 out from yours in terms of what FedEx provides for me today and what I hope for it to provide in my retirement years. Even if everyone suspended the influence of Covid on the economy and how the big three are forecast to furlough nearly 10k of our pilot brethren, how is this gig not a substantially better flying position than what was over there ‘pre-rona’?
Your comments lead me to believe that you are unhappy and angry with those about to retire. The very people that built up THE industry leading contract, QOL, pay and retirement. In my opinion, focusing on 4k a month in training and no hotel is losing the forest for the trees. Further you are not even comparing apples to apples, at AA you didn't get hotel or per diem if you did training in your base OR if you lived within 50 miles of the training facility. Even counting training pay, my first year at FedEx eclipsed AA. And recently, outside of a negotiation, our Captains fought for and got hotels for BI.
The efforts of those Captains further reflects the professionals I fly with on the line. Actions like BI hotels and the fact I never pay for food or drinks because the boss is always buying, aren’t dividing us as you say, but uniting us together so we can stop our in-fighting and focus on what matters.
I like this job, I like this company, and I’m grateful to be here to do it. So, I do the walk around, fold the napkin on the water bottle, make the coffee and back up the guy or gal sitting to my left as best I can and in exchange I get to learn how to fly in this system and most importantly learn how make this job last for my next 30 years so someday I can hopefully pass along a fantastic job to the next generation.
After reading your posts, I’m very surprised we work at the same airline. I too recently came from another major and have an experience and perspective that is 180 out from yours in terms of what FedEx provides for me today and what I hope for it to provide in my retirement years. Even if everyone suspended the influence of Covid on the economy and how the big three are forecast to furlough nearly 10k of our pilot brethren, how is this gig not a substantially better flying position than what was over there ‘pre-rona’?
Your comments lead me to believe that you are unhappy and angry with those about to retire. The very people that built up THE industry leading contract, QOL, pay and retirement. In my opinion, focusing on 4k a month in training and no hotel is losing the forest for the trees. Further you are not even comparing apples to apples, at AA you didn't get hotel or per diem if you did training in your base OR if you lived within 50 miles of the training facility. Even counting training pay, my first year at FedEx eclipsed AA. And recently, outside of a negotiation, our Captains fought for and got hotels for BI.
The efforts of those Captains further reflects the professionals I fly with on the line. Actions like BI hotels and the fact I never pay for food or drinks because the boss is always buying, aren’t dividing us as you say, but uniting us together so we can stop our in-fighting and focus on what matters.
I like this job, I like this company, and I’m grateful to be here to do it. So, I do the walk around, fold the napkin on the water bottle, make the coffee and back up the guy or gal sitting to my left as best I can and in exchange I get to learn how to fly in this system and most importantly learn how make this job last for my next 30 years so someday I can hopefully pass along a fantastic job to the next generation.
08-25-2020 | 06:27 AM
#89
Banned
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
Likes: 0
It sounds like my points may be a bit misconstrued. Let me try to simplify what im saying.
1.) I hear a lot of “the older group” saying I will only look at an increase to the current A plan. Well, if that is so, why didnt you do that and hold the line on those increases the past 20 + years when it was not improved? Im not saying this trying to be divisive its just the facts of the past. Why is it “the younger groups” job to fix 20+ years of them not standing up as they walk out the door?
2.) I love this job and have said we have the industry best contract numerous times on this forum. In fact, I have even got a little heated with those who constantly complain about the tiny items and miss the elephant in the room.
3.) Im just very confused on why we would continue to stay in a pension formula that we have not been able to increase in over 20 years. Why would we not look at a different formula that adds value for us and is self increasing and sustaining. If we need to buy a few up so be it. We are a team so lets lift a few up that may be behind in the new formula.
4.) Im a team player and very much enjoy the people I fly with. I honestly have a fun time going to work (even when COVID has everything shut down).
5.) I hope we find a way forward and get together for this contract and get it rite with retirement. Lets not get in the weeds trying to mess with 10-15 things and creat new things.
1.) I hear a lot of “the older group” saying I will only look at an increase to the current A plan. Well, if that is so, why didnt you do that and hold the line on those increases the past 20 + years when it was not improved? Im not saying this trying to be divisive its just the facts of the past. Why is it “the younger groups” job to fix 20+ years of them not standing up as they walk out the door?
2.) I love this job and have said we have the industry best contract numerous times on this forum. In fact, I have even got a little heated with those who constantly complain about the tiny items and miss the elephant in the room.
3.) Im just very confused on why we would continue to stay in a pension formula that we have not been able to increase in over 20 years. Why would we not look at a different formula that adds value for us and is self increasing and sustaining. If we need to buy a few up so be it. We are a team so lets lift a few up that may be behind in the new formula.
4.) Im a team player and very much enjoy the people I fly with. I honestly have a fun time going to work (even when COVID has everything shut down).
5.) I hope we find a way forward and get together for this contract and get it rite with retirement. Lets not get in the weeds trying to mess with 10-15 things and creat new things.
08-25-2020 | 10:05 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
So explain to a new guy why he should negotiate an increase to the current FAE or years of service on the legacy plan when the older group failed for 20+ years to do anything about it. It sounds to me like a bunch of guys with less than 10 years left want the rest of the group to prop them up out the door when they failed to hold the line for 20+ years on a pension increase. Why is that on all the new guys to fix?
Not being snarky just asking honest questions. Why would we not want to negotiate something that is self growing and doesn't have to be negotiated for a big increase every contract to keep up with inflation. Why would we not want to look at something that sustains itself over time?
That same group on the way out is flying exceptionally high amounts of draft. Are they willing to do anything to help their cause or do they want everyone else to sacrifice for them? Im sorry but im not going to stand by while they fly every bit of draft they can get and then prop them up on the way out the door.
The current pension formula is obviously very expensive to increase from a liabilities standpoint. Why do we want a small bump every 20 years? Why not look at something that is more self stabilizing? To me we have a very clear divide. We have the group with less than 10 years left that want fixed what they did not stand up for the past 20 years.
Not being snarky just asking honest questions. Why would we not want to negotiate something that is self growing and doesn't have to be negotiated for a big increase every contract to keep up with inflation. Why would we not want to look at something that sustains itself over time?
That same group on the way out is flying exceptionally high amounts of draft. Are they willing to do anything to help their cause or do they want everyone else to sacrifice for them? Im sorry but im not going to stand by while they fly every bit of draft they can get and then prop them up on the way out the door.
The current pension formula is obviously very expensive to increase from a liabilities standpoint. Why do we want a small bump every 20 years? Why not look at something that is more self stabilizing? To me we have a very clear divide. We have the group with less than 10 years left that want fixed what they did not stand up for the past 20 years.
En bocas cerradas, no entran moscas.
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