Just a subtle reminder…
#21
You better go read the UA board. They are very underwhelmed after 3.5 years of negotiations it appears. You are also quoting pay rates that don’t become active for over another year from United. Remember pay rates are one piece of a bigger picture when it comes to total pay. As for our pilot group being self serving draft *****s you are correct. How is our union ever going to achieve anything when we have a bunch of self serving hypocrites as pilots.
#22
Originally Posted by magic rat;[url=tel:3428048
3428048]Its not, I was being sarcastic. We have the lowest pay rates, but brag about our vacation policy. We seem to hang our hats on it. My view was, i get enough time off flying my line, I’d rather be THE highest paid airline pilots in the industry…our vacation policy is great, I don’t want to change it, but my eye is on another prize. IMO. I was saying that they set the bar for pay rates.
FedEx better understand that. The need for pilots is real and they already have pilots not showing up to BI. If any major makes a huge leap in pay, I can see new hires leaving FedEx. The younger generations are much more focused on QOL.
#23
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Position: B-757 Captain
Posts: 8
The NQN "wins" and our future CBA
Let me start by saying this is my very first post on this forum but I felt it was important for us as a pilot group to reflect on the most recent union’s “win” with the NQN grievance and newest COVID MOU. Also, this outcome gives me very little hope as to how our upcoming CBA will turn out in the future.
As a background, I chose not to tell the company my vaccine status and lost over 40 hours of pay due to NQN in recent months because of it. I fully understood based on the company’s FCIFs that I would be placed in this status and not be able to pick up trips during these footprints. However, prior to these company actions, the union apparently had a verbal agreement with the company that pilots affected by not being able to fly to certain countries would be put in sub which the union emailed us about. This agreement obviously changed rather quickly. I also read the grievance the union had put out in regards to this which spelled out how they wanted the company to pay any pilots that were affected by this NQN status draft pay for those dropped trips in response to this penalizing of pilots by not being able to pick up trips during these footprints. This grievance to the company has now been pulled off ALPA’s website and modified to something totally different now which I don’t understand.
After reading the agreement between our union and the company, I was very upset to learn that the only thing our union got from the company was that any pilots put in NQN would get makeup bank for those dropped trips. That really wasn’t a “win” at all since I was given makeup hours for my trips when they were dropped for NQN by the company at the time it happened. So any previous NQN pilots basically got nothing from this grievance. Also, future trips dropped for NQN will be rewarded with reserve days which goes against seniority in so many ways. The “wins” we got in the grievance resolution only benefit those who have reported their vaccine status and have gotten the vaccine. Our union claims it is a “win” to not have a mandated vaccine but this would be illegal in the state of Tennessee for any Memphis based pilots at the very least based on Title 14 of the Tennessee law code. This most likely is the reason the company has not pursued this mandate prior to this grievance resolution. I would add that it should be illegal that the company put us in NQN status to begin with since this violates Title 14 by saying we are unable to work during those periods based on our vaccine status.
I am truly worried these “wins” the union touts from this grievance show a bad precedent as to what our future CBA will be like. Although we as pilots feel not flying draft, AVA, and selling vacation will help push the company towards a CBA, the union’s grievance resolution shows we will do whatever the company needs just for some extra money. All of these grievance “wins” with the extra pay disruptions and pay for booster shots only help the company in the long run to have more pilots capable of flying more international trips and also the company probably knows more pilots will get the vaccine and put their vaccine status in the system for some extra money. Our union could have really made a stand against the company with this grievance but once again we folded. This result brings back all the memories of our current CBA and how it went down in 2015. There was lots of talk about all of the gray area work rules and how the language needed to be better but we folded very quickly as soon as we were enticed by the big pay raises. I hope our union can change course and fix this way of thinking before we blow another CBA with the company.
As a background, I chose not to tell the company my vaccine status and lost over 40 hours of pay due to NQN in recent months because of it. I fully understood based on the company’s FCIFs that I would be placed in this status and not be able to pick up trips during these footprints. However, prior to these company actions, the union apparently had a verbal agreement with the company that pilots affected by not being able to fly to certain countries would be put in sub which the union emailed us about. This agreement obviously changed rather quickly. I also read the grievance the union had put out in regards to this which spelled out how they wanted the company to pay any pilots that were affected by this NQN status draft pay for those dropped trips in response to this penalizing of pilots by not being able to pick up trips during these footprints. This grievance to the company has now been pulled off ALPA’s website and modified to something totally different now which I don’t understand.
After reading the agreement between our union and the company, I was very upset to learn that the only thing our union got from the company was that any pilots put in NQN would get makeup bank for those dropped trips. That really wasn’t a “win” at all since I was given makeup hours for my trips when they were dropped for NQN by the company at the time it happened. So any previous NQN pilots basically got nothing from this grievance. Also, future trips dropped for NQN will be rewarded with reserve days which goes against seniority in so many ways. The “wins” we got in the grievance resolution only benefit those who have reported their vaccine status and have gotten the vaccine. Our union claims it is a “win” to not have a mandated vaccine but this would be illegal in the state of Tennessee for any Memphis based pilots at the very least based on Title 14 of the Tennessee law code. This most likely is the reason the company has not pursued this mandate prior to this grievance resolution. I would add that it should be illegal that the company put us in NQN status to begin with since this violates Title 14 by saying we are unable to work during those periods based on our vaccine status.
I am truly worried these “wins” the union touts from this grievance show a bad precedent as to what our future CBA will be like. Although we as pilots feel not flying draft, AVA, and selling vacation will help push the company towards a CBA, the union’s grievance resolution shows we will do whatever the company needs just for some extra money. All of these grievance “wins” with the extra pay disruptions and pay for booster shots only help the company in the long run to have more pilots capable of flying more international trips and also the company probably knows more pilots will get the vaccine and put their vaccine status in the system for some extra money. Our union could have really made a stand against the company with this grievance but once again we folded. This result brings back all the memories of our current CBA and how it went down in 2015. There was lots of talk about all of the gray area work rules and how the language needed to be better but we folded very quickly as soon as we were enticed by the big pay raises. I hope our union can change course and fix this way of thinking before we blow another CBA with the company.
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,091
Let me start by saying this is my very first post on this forum but I felt it was important for us as a pilot group to reflect on the most recent union’s “win” with the NQN grievance and newest COVID MOU. Also, this outcome gives me very little hope as to how our upcoming CBA will turn out in the future.
As a background, I chose not to tell the company my vaccine status and lost over 40 hours of pay due to NQN in recent months because of it. I fully understood based on the company’s FCIFs that I would be placed in this status and not be able to pick up trips during these footprints. However, prior to these company actions, the union apparently had a verbal agreement with the company that pilots affected by not being able to fly to certain countries would be put in sub which the union emailed us about. This agreement obviously changed rather quickly. I also read the grievance the union had put out in regards to this which spelled out how they wanted the company to pay any pilots that were affected by this NQN status draft pay for those dropped trips in response to this penalizing of pilots by not being able to pick up trips during these footprints. This grievance to the company has now been pulled off ALPA’s website and modified to something totally different now which I don’t understand.
After reading the agreement between our union and the company, I was very upset to learn that the only thing our union got from the company was that any pilots put in NQN would get makeup bank for those dropped trips. That really wasn’t a “win” at all since I was given makeup hours for my trips when they were dropped for NQN by the company at the time it happened. So any previous NQN pilots basically got nothing from this grievance. Also, future trips dropped for NQN will be rewarded with reserve days which goes against seniority in so many ways. The “wins” we got in the grievance resolution only benefit those who have reported their vaccine status and have gotten the vaccine. Our union claims it is a “win” to not have a mandated vaccine but this would be illegal in the state of Tennessee for any Memphis based pilots at the very least based on Title 14 of the Tennessee law code. This most likely is the reason the company has not pursued this mandate prior to this grievance resolution. I would add that it should be illegal that the company put us in NQN status to begin with since this violates Title 14 by saying we are unable to work during those periods based on our vaccine status.
I am truly worried these “wins” the union touts from this grievance show a bad precedent as to what our future CBA will be like. Although we as pilots feel not flying draft, AVA, and selling vacation will help push the company towards a CBA, the union’s grievance resolution shows we will do whatever the company needs just for some extra money. All of these grievance “wins” with the extra pay disruptions and pay for booster shots only help the company in the long run to have more pilots capable of flying more international trips and also the company probably knows more pilots will get the vaccine and put their vaccine status in the system for some extra money. Our union could have really made a stand against the company with this grievance but once again we folded. This result brings back all the memories of our current CBA and how it went down in 2015. There was lots of talk about all of the gray area work rules and how the language needed to be better but we folded very quickly as soon as we were enticed by the big pay raises. I hope our union can change course and fix this way of thinking before we blow another CBA with the company.
As a background, I chose not to tell the company my vaccine status and lost over 40 hours of pay due to NQN in recent months because of it. I fully understood based on the company’s FCIFs that I would be placed in this status and not be able to pick up trips during these footprints. However, prior to these company actions, the union apparently had a verbal agreement with the company that pilots affected by not being able to fly to certain countries would be put in sub which the union emailed us about. This agreement obviously changed rather quickly. I also read the grievance the union had put out in regards to this which spelled out how they wanted the company to pay any pilots that were affected by this NQN status draft pay for those dropped trips in response to this penalizing of pilots by not being able to pick up trips during these footprints. This grievance to the company has now been pulled off ALPA’s website and modified to something totally different now which I don’t understand.
After reading the agreement between our union and the company, I was very upset to learn that the only thing our union got from the company was that any pilots put in NQN would get makeup bank for those dropped trips. That really wasn’t a “win” at all since I was given makeup hours for my trips when they were dropped for NQN by the company at the time it happened. So any previous NQN pilots basically got nothing from this grievance. Also, future trips dropped for NQN will be rewarded with reserve days which goes against seniority in so many ways. The “wins” we got in the grievance resolution only benefit those who have reported their vaccine status and have gotten the vaccine. Our union claims it is a “win” to not have a mandated vaccine but this would be illegal in the state of Tennessee for any Memphis based pilots at the very least based on Title 14 of the Tennessee law code. This most likely is the reason the company has not pursued this mandate prior to this grievance resolution. I would add that it should be illegal that the company put us in NQN status to begin with since this violates Title 14 by saying we are unable to work during those periods based on our vaccine status.
I am truly worried these “wins” the union touts from this grievance show a bad precedent as to what our future CBA will be like. Although we as pilots feel not flying draft, AVA, and selling vacation will help push the company towards a CBA, the union’s grievance resolution shows we will do whatever the company needs just for some extra money. All of these grievance “wins” with the extra pay disruptions and pay for booster shots only help the company in the long run to have more pilots capable of flying more international trips and also the company probably knows more pilots will get the vaccine and put their vaccine status in the system for some extra money. Our union could have really made a stand against the company with this grievance but once again we folded. This result brings back all the memories of our current CBA and how it went down in 2015. There was lots of talk about all of the gray area work rules and how the language needed to be better but we folded very quickly as soon as we were enticed by the big pay raises. I hope our union can change course and fix this way of thinking before we blow another CBA with the company.
#25
Thanks for a respectful reply. I agree, I want a significant bump in pay. We earned it because of COVID ops and we have the toughest schedules period.
FedEx better understand that. The need for pilots is real and they already have pilots not showing up to BI. If any major makes a huge leap in pay, I can see new hires leaving FedEx. The younger generations are much more focused on QOL.
FedEx better understand that. The need for pilots is real and they already have pilots not showing up to BI. If any major makes a huge leap in pay, I can see new hires leaving FedEx. The younger generations are much more focused on QOL.
in my opinion, our union was once again naive or complicit in stating that we could have a TA by the end of May. Maybe by October if we get smart and do smart things, but as a group we’re pretty stupid!
oh, and by the way, don’t forget to submit ur hotel receipt or it comes out of your pocket! yes, on trips u were assigned!
eat healthy, i.e., avoid the catering, and try and get a workout in with our down time minimized in cheaper and cheaper hotels.
yet listen to the egos saying, welcome to the big leagues! ok. sure. but hows the team spirit? the morale in the locker room? how’s our relationship with the general manager? how about recruiting top talent? for a while we were the place to be, but nothing lasts forever.
all this is just one woman’s opinion. I/she/we/them could be wrong.
#26
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 34
Thank you for saying what needed to be said.
I certainly don't know what the reasons were for even addressing this when we are not making significant progress towards a new CBA. Nor do I believe our negotiators are stupid or lazy. But please mention the things we gave up too.
1. COVID positive pay protection went from 60 days to 5.
2. NQN was addressed
3. 2CH pay is only for restricted countries (max 10CH)
4. Pretesting pay is not paid if you deviate (huh?)
I certainly don't know what the reasons were for even addressing this when we are not making significant progress towards a new CBA. Nor do I believe our negotiators are stupid or lazy. But please mention the things we gave up too.
1. COVID positive pay protection went from 60 days to 5.
2. NQN was addressed
3. 2CH pay is only for restricted countries (max 10CH)
4. Pretesting pay is not paid if you deviate (huh?)
#27
Let me start by saying this is my very first post on this forum but I felt it was important for us as a pilot group to reflect on the most recent union’s “win” with the NQN grievance and newest COVID MOU. Also, this outcome gives me very little hope as to how our upcoming CBA will turn out in the future.
As a background, I chose not to tell the company my vaccine status and lost over 40 hours of pay due to NQN in recent months because of it. I fully understood based on the company’s FCIFs that I would be placed in this status and not be able to pick up trips during these footprints. However, prior to these company actions, the union apparently had a verbal agreement with the company that pilots affected by not being able to fly to certain countries would be put in sub which the union emailed us about. This agreement obviously changed rather quickly. I also read the grievance the union had put out in regards to this which spelled out how they wanted the company to pay any pilots that were affected by this NQN status draft pay for those dropped trips in response to this penalizing of pilots by not being able to pick up trips during these footprints. This grievance to the company has now been pulled off ALPA’s website and modified to something totally different now which I don’t understand.
After reading the agreement between our union and the company, I was very upset to learn that the only thing our union got from the company was that any pilots put in NQN would get makeup bank for those dropped trips. That really wasn’t a “win” at all since I was given makeup hours for my trips when they were dropped for NQN by the company at the time it happened. So any previous NQN pilots basically got nothing from this grievance. Also, future trips dropped for NQN will be rewarded with reserve days which goes against seniority in so many ways. The “wins” we got in the grievance resolution only benefit those who have reported their vaccine status and have gotten the vaccine. Our union claims it is a “win” to not have a mandated vaccine but this would be illegal in the state of Tennessee for any Memphis based pilots at the very least based on Title 14 of the Tennessee law code. This most likely is the reason the company has not pursued this mandate prior to this grievance resolution. I would add that it should be illegal that the company put us in NQN status to begin with since this violates Title 14 by saying we are unable to work during those periods based on our vaccine status.
I am truly worried these “wins” the union touts from this grievance show a bad precedent as to what our future CBA will be like. Although we as pilots feel not flying draft, AVA, and selling vacation will help push the company towards a CBA, the union’s grievance resolution shows we will do whatever the company needs just for some extra money. All of these grievance “wins” with the extra pay disruptions and pay for booster shots only help the company in the long run to have more pilots capable of flying more international trips and also the company probably knows more pilots will get the vaccine and put their vaccine status in the system for some extra money. Our union could have really made a stand against the company with this grievance but once again we folded. This result brings back all the memories of our current CBA and how it went down in 2015. There was lots of talk about all of the gray area work rules and how the language needed to be better but we folded very quickly as soon as we were enticed by the big pay raises. I hope our union can change course and fix this way of thinking before we blow another CBA with the company.
As a background, I chose not to tell the company my vaccine status and lost over 40 hours of pay due to NQN in recent months because of it. I fully understood based on the company’s FCIFs that I would be placed in this status and not be able to pick up trips during these footprints. However, prior to these company actions, the union apparently had a verbal agreement with the company that pilots affected by not being able to fly to certain countries would be put in sub which the union emailed us about. This agreement obviously changed rather quickly. I also read the grievance the union had put out in regards to this which spelled out how they wanted the company to pay any pilots that were affected by this NQN status draft pay for those dropped trips in response to this penalizing of pilots by not being able to pick up trips during these footprints. This grievance to the company has now been pulled off ALPA’s website and modified to something totally different now which I don’t understand.
After reading the agreement between our union and the company, I was very upset to learn that the only thing our union got from the company was that any pilots put in NQN would get makeup bank for those dropped trips. That really wasn’t a “win” at all since I was given makeup hours for my trips when they were dropped for NQN by the company at the time it happened. So any previous NQN pilots basically got nothing from this grievance. Also, future trips dropped for NQN will be rewarded with reserve days which goes against seniority in so many ways. The “wins” we got in the grievance resolution only benefit those who have reported their vaccine status and have gotten the vaccine. Our union claims it is a “win” to not have a mandated vaccine but this would be illegal in the state of Tennessee for any Memphis based pilots at the very least based on Title 14 of the Tennessee law code. This most likely is the reason the company has not pursued this mandate prior to this grievance resolution. I would add that it should be illegal that the company put us in NQN status to begin with since this violates Title 14 by saying we are unable to work during those periods based on our vaccine status.
I am truly worried these “wins” the union touts from this grievance show a bad precedent as to what our future CBA will be like. Although we as pilots feel not flying draft, AVA, and selling vacation will help push the company towards a CBA, the union’s grievance resolution shows we will do whatever the company needs just for some extra money. All of these grievance “wins” with the extra pay disruptions and pay for booster shots only help the company in the long run to have more pilots capable of flying more international trips and also the company probably knows more pilots will get the vaccine and put their vaccine status in the system for some extra money. Our union could have really made a stand against the company with this grievance but once again we folded. This result brings back all the memories of our current CBA and how it went down in 2015. There was lots of talk about all of the gray area work rules and how the language needed to be better but we folded very quickly as soon as we were enticed by the big pay raises. I hope our union can change course and fix this way of thinking before we blow another CBA with the company.
Looks to me like you had lost pay because the NQN red line, but they got you the ability to go do makeup now and get your pay back.
Looks like the agreement also guarantees that you will be paid (reserve and makeup) if you still want to bid trips you aren’t legal to fly. That seems like a reasonable work around to your unvaccinated status.
IMHO your vaccination issues shouldn’t be owned by everyone else who chose to be legal to fly everywhere we operate into by being vaccinated.
Finally, you seem to be saying that because you chose not to be vaccinated, you should be able to stay home and get paid. Is that correct?
I really don’t care what your choice was over vax, I just don’t think you should get special treatment for it.
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 98
from NC Negotiating notepad:
“Negotiations successfully progressed to a point that we achieved language in Section 5 that establishes significant solutions to this ongoing problem. With Section 5 TA’d, except for per diem, we reached an agreement with FedEx to immediately place into effect one of these provisions on a trial basis. Following the notification of a payroll deduction, you will now have 14 days following the notification to remedy a discrepancy, regardless of the applicable expense report or receipt deadline. To be clear, this immediate remedy is a portion of the language that will ultimately include additional crew notifications of specific missing or incomplete receipts, thereby providing crewmembers ample time and notice to update their expense reports.“
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 447
so you wanted draft pay because you knowingly bid to a country you couldn’t legally fly to? That’s a joke, correct?
Looks to me like you had lost pay because the NQN red line, but they got you the ability to go do makeup now and get your pay back.
Looks like the agreement also guarantees that you will be paid (reserve and makeup) if you still want to bid trips you aren’t legal to fly. That seems like a reasonable work around to your unvaccinated status.
IMHO your vaccination issues shouldn’t be owned by everyone else who chose to be legal to fly everywhere we operate into by being vaccinated.
Finally, you seem to be saying that because you chose not to be vaccinated, you should be able to stay home and get paid. Is that correct?
I really don’t care what your choice was over vax, I just don’t think you should get special treatment for it.
Looks to me like you had lost pay because the NQN red line, but they got you the ability to go do makeup now and get your pay back.
Looks like the agreement also guarantees that you will be paid (reserve and makeup) if you still want to bid trips you aren’t legal to fly. That seems like a reasonable work around to your unvaccinated status.
IMHO your vaccination issues shouldn’t be owned by everyone else who chose to be legal to fly everywhere we operate into by being vaccinated.
Finally, you seem to be saying that because you chose not to be vaccinated, you should be able to stay home and get paid. Is that correct?
I really don’t care what your choice was over vax, I just don’t think you should get special treatment for it.
#30
not totally fixed, would like to not even have to submit a receipt, but certainly better than before.
from NC Negotiating notepad:
“Negotiations successfully progressed to a point that we achieved language in Section 5 that establishes significant solutions to this ongoing problem. With Section 5 TA’d, except for per diem, we reached an agreement with FedEx to immediately place into effect one of these provisions on a trial basis. Following the notification of a payroll deduction, you will now have 14 days following the notification to remedy a discrepancy, regardless of the applicable expense report or receipt deadline. To be clear, this immediate remedy is a portion of the language that will ultimately include additional crew notifications of specific missing or incomplete receipts, thereby providing crewmembers ample time and notice to update their expense reports.“
from NC Negotiating notepad:
“Negotiations successfully progressed to a point that we achieved language in Section 5 that establishes significant solutions to this ongoing problem. With Section 5 TA’d, except for per diem, we reached an agreement with FedEx to immediately place into effect one of these provisions on a trial basis. Following the notification of a payroll deduction, you will now have 14 days following the notification to remedy a discrepancy, regardless of the applicable expense report or receipt deadline. To be clear, this immediate remedy is a portion of the language that will ultimately include additional crew notifications of specific missing or incomplete receipts, thereby providing crewmembers ample time and notice to update their expense reports.“