Bankruptcy era retirement. That is from the union messaging.


Now show me what the union is bargaining on our behalf.

 

It was in that nice laminated pamphlet they mailed to everyone's house months ago no? Or are you talking about further specifics?

 

You are correct. The union has numerous times sent out the bullet points and subjects they want to negotiate. The company has sent none. I wonder why that is…..

What the poster you replied to wants to do is micromanage. I have been reading all the NC communications and they have had plenty of details on each section as they progress. Certain people are never happy unless they are complaining. Thats what you are seeing from those trying to micromanage while not volunteering to do the jobs.

 

Yeah, I carry a copy with me, it's pretty.

At this point we need specifics. What are we fighting for? We don't need platitudes. We need facts. The lack of pilot participation should prove that.


Saying "50% replacement ratio" is good, but the facts matter. Is that date of signing only? Will the pilots who retire in say 5, or 10 or 15 or 23 years going to be at the same rate ( a lower ratio) as those who retire in say two years? Who's 50% are they targeting? It matters.


Any givebacks will also be problematic.


In short, the union needs buy-in from the pilots and they don't have it in large enough numbers right now, but they could easily earn our trust with facts. That choice belongs to the Reps alone.

 

The problem isn’t trust, it’s pilots personal greed. Many pilots I have flown with are unwilling to give up anything (time or money) to get what they say they want. They put in no effort to stay engaged but know every trick to manipulate their schedule or get extra money (all things negotiated for in the contract).

Lets actually deal in facts and get people onboard instead of pointing fingers at those volunteering and fighting for a better contract for our group.

 

Because you want a seat at the negotiating table and thankfully you don't because you don't realize how stupid it would be to negotiate in public which you continue to do.

 

It’s times like this that I really wish this forum had a “Like” button.

 

“Capt/FO willing to extend” eom.

 

Well said!

But, but, but I'm on APC and I know much better than those volunteering and doing the work to get the contract done. I like to sit back and throw darts. I like to turn every situation and scenario into a competition of how I could have done so much better.

Imagine if the company allowed labor relations to throw mud on each other in public forums. Why do you think these people would be fired in a second? Yet some pilots do just this and hurt themselves and us as a group. Unbelievable

 

So here's a series of serious questions. I would like a civil discussion. (Good luck.). Suppose a person could attend the picketing event. Suppose that person is undecided as to whether they should attend.

1) Why should that person attend, when they have asked the union repeatedly to explain what they are negotiating for in regards to our retirement plan, only to be told, "it's a secret" and "you don't need to know"?

2) The union alway talks about unity, but they constantly do things that create disunity. For example, hiding the type of retirement they are negotiating from the rank and file. Why should we trust them? They don't trust us, but we should trust them? I'm sorry, I've been played before, way too many times.

3) I get it that we are supposed to show solidarity against the company, but how do we let the union know we are displeased with the union leadership? They don't seem to listen, at all!

4) "My" union did not poll the membership before deciding that I would not have a choice about whether or not I want to work past age 65. Wait, I thought they represented "me", but I guess they represent all of the younger crowd, most of whom never sat sideways and a lot of whom had wide body right seat pay on day one, but they want to kick me to the curb so they can take my seat? I am supposed to trust them with my retirement, when they obviously favor the younger crowd? Don't my substantial dues mean anything? If not, why am I being forced to pay for people who don't represent what is best for me, as opposed to what is best for everyone junior to me?

5) Frankly, I am sick of being played by "my" union, and I am seriously considering finding someplace else to be on June 28. Go ahead, flame away, but see if you can address my concerns. I won't be surprised if you won't, "my" union won't address them either!

I am sure the name calling will begin very shortly.