Amen! Hold the line as long as it takes. Industry-leading contract or nothing. DO NOT make concessions to expedite an A-plan increase for the folks at or near retirement who have had 20+ years to negotiate A-plan increases. Where were they in 2015?

Payrates: Industry standard - Delta plus a nickel

Retirement: Current $130K retirement (effective 1999) adjusted for inflation: $232,307.50 / year (at end of 2022)

Value of $130,000 from 1999 to 2022:
$130,000 in 1999 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $232,307.50 today, an increase of $102,307.50 over 23 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate of 2.56% per year between 1999 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 78.70%.

This means that today's prices are 1.79 times as high as average prices since 1999, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index. A dollar today only buys 55.960% of what it could buy back then.

The inflation rate in 1999 was 2.21%. The current inflation rate compared to last year is now 7.11%.

Our retirement must have an adjustment rate attached to it based on government inflation rates or an agreed upon value!!
.................................................. .................................................. .....................

If we agree to anything less, WE ARE MORONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There hasn’t been a major retirement improvement since 1999. I was hired after C2015 and it was a primary objective for me to have the A-Plan leveled up. I wasn’t going to have a new generation say that I didn’t make huge gains in retirement while I was here. So I’m not eager to burn the last couple years of negotiations because Delta has decided to go for QOL. Good for them. I think we’ll have a TA by next spring. That’s four months. If we open other sections of the contract, we’re talking about an actual multi-year investment. If this one is a three year deal, at least we’re getting paid while the next contract is a QOL contract that will be amendable around 2025-26. However, If our current focused negotiations took 18 months, then how long would opening up a litany of sections take on top our current focused areas take? Three years? Then, once again we arrive at 2025-26 for the next contract. Only this time we missed out on FIVE YEARS of pay since our last increase. That’s not acceptable. I do have a list about a mile long of QOL improvements.

As far as people about to retire, there have been three contracts since 1999. I don’t fully know the history, but was there even a strike vote authorization during that time to improve retirement? If not, then the group was seemingly satisfied. I know there are some vocal guys on here that may argue they really wanted it, but it’s about the group choice ultimately. And the group did not achieve major improvements to retirement. I think we all know that as our own retirement comes, we may not have the timing work out in a way that one last contract is signed right before we walk out the door. It’s just the way it goes sometimes. Unless we get some kind of retirement healthcare, I don’t expect any provisions to cover me after I walk out the door. I would expect most on the verge of retirement feel the same.

TLDR - I would rather get retirement done so I don’t have to think about it for another twenty years at the expense of QOL items during this go round. FYI - I’m a millennial with 20+ years to go.

In June of 99, Pay rate was $183.37 and Intl Ovrd was $6.50. In order to get to a $130,000 pension, an International Capt had to work just over 1369 CHs (and there was no block over 10 override), and not as much international flying. Domestic Capt had to work just under 1418 CHs.

So, work the same math magic for a $94,935 Pension which is what a 1000CH a year International guy would've wound up with.
Or, go to Dec 2003 for the last payrate of our 99 CBA (18 month longevity raises...even worse if you consider the 98 agreement implementation was delay to summer of 99)
But I digress, last pay rate was $206.24

We had the possibility of a $130k retirement in 99.
If you go with a simple 1000CHs, that pension wasn't achieved until after the Bridge TA was passed and the Pay Rate upped to $253.02 in March of 2011. (International Ovrd up to $9 in that TA)

If you use Min BLG, don't hit that pension until the pay rate exceeds $294, which was achieved in November of 2016 after the first longevity raise to our pay rate to $295.27.

It's a great emotional argument. But if it was easy to get a F500 company to up a Pension Substantially in the modern ERA UPS would've been able to bump their 1% FAE pension to match ours 16 years ago instead of sidestepping it by the creation of a FDA benefit component. A benefit that goes away if you're unlucky enough to wind up in a gap year\age and negotiations go on for too long at UPS. An FDA benefit that is retroactive within certain time limits for those who've already retired.

Oh man this thing is full of more concessions than a Friday night game. When you see it make sure you thank those who negotiated it for you. If I'm wrong I'll be the first to come here and offer a mea culpa, but you can count on them not doing the same.

Also getting voted down isn't an inevitable either. Guys are happy with the current work rules and conditions. If they werent they wouldnt be falling all over themselves to pickup open time and extend. Any pay increase will be seen as a win from that camp and there's a lot of them around here. Don't be fooled. just cause they're too busy flying EXTRA to be on here doesn't mean that they ain't Legion.

We are our own worst enemies

I haven’t voted yes on a contract yet, and I don’t plan to start now. Delta changed the game for us ALL, every carrier, now is the time to strike! Hold the line, NO CONCESSIONS!

Man is this one interesting.

How many have shown up for a Joint Council Meeting and expressed their views? Local Council meeting?

How many took the survey and WAGd their answers? Did our MEC offer any education after the game has changed?


Our FAE should be twice the IRS defined benefit plan limit. Currently $245K ($490K FAE), $265K ($530K FAE) in 2023.
And our pay rates should be the highest in the industry. Delta Plus a lot more than a nickel for all the reasons stated above.


I think it is clear to all the company's delay is going to cost them a lot more money (think Billions more), even if we just improve our retirement and pay rates now. Consider getting educated on the time cost of money and let's take this golden acorn. Show up in Jan 23 on the 11th and let the MEC know how you feel. Without unity, we are not going to see the improvements we have earned.
I have five years left if anyone wants a barometer on my timeline. I care about floating all boats, now.

Yes United is going to raise the rates even more, and AA may do the same. At some point we have to sweep the money off the table into our pockets. Now may be that time. Or we can wait for better offers, how long is that going to take?

How has this DAL contract changed everything for us? What are you so enthused about with in the DAL contract? A pay rate? A few bullet points that we have yet to see language on? Have you educated yourself on DAL's sick system and how it works? How about Vacation, Retirement, Min daily pay, Monthly Guarantee, Revision and Extension Pay, Block Override and International Override? How many DAL pilots are on those wide-body rates? How much of their career is on those rates?

I can clearly see many have G Locked on a pay rate. If we are just chasing a pay rate then are we willing to take the rest of DL's contract? We are paid based upon a pay rate multiplied by numerous other work-rules and factors. Lets not forget those ALL IMPORTANT underlying factors as I mentioned above.

I have another novel idea, although not popular on the inter-web complaint boards. Lets let the full language come out. Lets actually see the language. Then lets look at what we already have that far exceeds many of the bullets on the AIP document. It will be surprising to some, but many areas we are far superior on currently.

Do you know how DAL's revision language works? Do they have an option like we do with substitution/RAT? Call a Delta buddy and ask him/her.

Let's just see where this takes us at this point. If there is a concession or lack of improvements in QOL improvements I'll vote no.

If our pay is significantly lower than DAL's it'll be a no.