This TA needs to pass!!!
 

OK I have to chime in after reading all this misinformation, whining, and MEC/ALPA bashing.
These are my points, like it or not the silent majority must speak out!!!!
1. My New Hire pay was $2000.00 a month and I was happy and proud to be at FedEx. This TA raises it to 6 to 8K a month. Quit whining!
2. I know MEC leadership personally and know the did the absolute best they could and better than any of you naysayers could have done!
3. I will definitely be a YES vote and hope all you uninformed naysayers will be educated over the next month or so and also vote YES.
4. I am happy with the retirement improvements and Pay increases. I know of an Airline that got a true industry leading contract in 2000 and shortly after that went bankrupt! Is that what you want for FedEx?
5. R24 to R16. We didn’t even have R24 before 2015 contract, so be happy that we still have some form of it.
6. All this Scope talk, well it was not even an issue in the surveys that we all submitted, so why is it such a big deal to some of you now? You can’t just keep moving the goal posts during negotiations.
This may have ruffled a few feathers, that’s good you all need to wake up and realize that this TA is a light years ahead of the 2015 contract and be happy and thankful for all the hard work PM and the MEC put into it.
Now that everybody has had a few days to throw their temper tantrums, let’s now let cooler heads prevail!
If this TA gets voted down the amount of lost wages and lost retirement income for 2 years will almost be impossible to recuperate.
The Company will be laughing all the way to the bank and we will be stuck with 2021 wages and substandard Retirement from last contract for 2 more years.
Wake up people!! Take what we got and address all the minor little issues, I.e. R24, AVA, etc with the next contract.
“Bird in hand better than two in bush”, “Don’t look a gifted horse in the mouth”
The silent Majority
!!!!!YES!!!!!

How far out is your mandatory retirement date?

yikes. I don’t even work at fedex and this makes me disappointed.

Sell it somewhere else, because I'm not buying.

When did you move over to the bus Pat?

Me either, but this post screams troll.

This poster is obviously not a Fedex pilot. Just look at the statements. No R24 before the 2015 contract? 2021 wages? Not to mention the messed up sayings such as a gifted horse. This person is just an internet troll trying to cause problems. Just put them on your ignore list and stop replying to their drivel.

This has to be satire.

User name checks out

He’s also undoubtedly hoping for age 67…..ensuring any remote chance of hiring in the next few years is firmly stomped out…..

Pinseeker you sound like a certain political party that attacks and tries to silence anyone you don’t agree with instead of having an intelligent conversation.
Because you don’t agree with me you call it drivel!!!
You point out how I might have messed up some sayings instead of the points I made about the contract, so you must agree with my points!
!!!!VOTE YES!!!!

If this is a gift the only thing it resembles is a bad case of herpes:eek:. And one thing you can count on is that it will keep on giving.

Pinseeker has been a vocal supporter of the MEC/NC even when others weren’t. If when Pinseeker isn’t impressed with this TA, it should tell you something.

1. Good improvement.. It’s helps new hires while screwing them everywhere else (ie..retirement). Nope
2. Emotional argument. Nope
3. Good for you.. That convinces me.. Nope
4. Because you’re happy with that, we should be? Were you not here for Covid? Nope
5. Who’s misinformed? Nope
6. Drive makes scope a big deal! Huge change in priorities! Furlough while wet lease. Nope
You don’t even realize but your bullet points actually make a better argument against this POS TA

Definitely not a pilot but could be a spouse of one. They seem to be trying to influence via social media.

Dude, more ineptitude! I have not been a vocal supporter of the MEC/NC, I have been a supporter letting the process finish since we were down to one item. I have always said that I would read the TA and evaluate it on it's merits or lack there of. I was hoping for a great TA, not the POS that we were given. There is a process in place. Now it's our turn to vote or make it so abundantly clear to the MEC that this will fail miserably that they decide to pull their support of the TA and send the NC back before the vote opens.

TROLL POST, move along. That or an actual Airbus boomer captain in the wild. Either way this should be disregarded.

I don’t work for FedEx but I must say I do always enjoy someone confidently declaring that they speak for the majority.

Especially when what they’re saying is so… interesting…

I think NoWork/OnceWas has created a new profile....

Dear OP:

Your opinion is of zero value or interest to me. You get your one vote. I get mine.

Don’t feed the troll…

how many divorces are you on the hook to pay alimony for? It’s going to hurt real bad when the pilots vote this colossal piece of **** into the garbage bin. If an extra 2.5k a month in the pension is enough for you to sell out the rest of the pilot group well I guess we found just another independent contractor. I’m sure you have your schedule blocked as well. I cannot wait to see younger folks stick it to older folks for a
change.

In a nutshell, we’ve given up way too much in this contract and gained very little. Specifically, our potential jobs (and certainly our job security). And don’t even get me started on the threats to the future pilots…our kids (next generation’s) jobs, bc we’ve weakened every section of the contract for retirement (for guys who are leaving in the next 5 years)...chief among these weakened sections is section 1, scope! If you guys are good with screwing over everyone who’s not out the door in the next 5 years for an extra 30k a year, well, I guess we know your price.

For the rest of us, we see scope weakened, not strengthened. We see pay way short of our labors and efforts, we see back pay that is laughable, we see Substitution expanded not reduced…I could go on, but I’m sure you get the point…that basically our QOL will be less not more! Thus, I feel the vast majority will vote this down bc of the absurd concessions. Most understand that it’s not just the destination that’s important, but also the journey! Lastly I’d say, If you want to fixate on retirement at the expense of everything and everyone else all I can say is you will find that this pilot group will vote you and our feckless NC down in a few short days. That is all!

Respectively,

Tun

My responses are in bold embedded in your post. While we might lose $ over the short term, accepting pay rates below the market will cost us going forward in subsequent contracts. If we don’t address job security in light of the new direction, the company can do a lot of damage to us bin 4.5 years.

I understand if you’re close to 65 why you would accept this but I don’t think the younger crowd thinks the “minor little issues” are as minor or little since it will affect their careers. I hope we can get a ratifiable agreement soon so more guys retiring don’t get screwed. When Pat said it was unconscionable that guys were retiring under the old plan, he is right, but I don’t think that was directed at the young guys. It was directed at FedEx for dragging out the focused negotiations which cost all of those retirees.

Pretty much. Send this turd back where it came from and use the leverage we finally have before they replace us with drones.

You won’t see retirement bro……

From another source:So, Section 1 - Scope…..



Let me spell this out. And again, someone please correct me if I am completely wrong, maybe I don’t understand the verbiage, and I will happily say I am wrong if can be proven otherwise, but I am pretty certain THIS TA REMOVES THE ONLY WET LEASE LIMITATION WE HAVE IN OUR CURRENT CONTRACT!



They have red-lined all parts that included “Except for the minimum two aircraft wet leasing referred to above, during the bid periods described in this paragraph, the Company shall not wet lease more than the net gain of trunk aircraft scheduled to be added and brought into service in any calendar year.”



So, currently the company can always wet-lease two aircraft, for up to four bid periods per calendar year, without penalty. Above that they ARE LIMITED BASED ON THE NET GAIN OF TRUNK AIRCRAFT BROUGHT INTO SERVICE. So, if they cancel all future orders today, they cannot just wet-lease more than two while they park/retire current trunk airplanes and don’t bring more online. THIS IS HUGE as it protects what we have defined as Domestic and International flying.



I had to listen to the FDX ALPA Podcast multiple times as I felt I had to be hearing them incorrectly, but two different committe members said at least 2x (at minute 11:30 and minute 13) that the Comapny can wet-lease as much as they want right now. THIS IS INCORRECT INFORMATION based on the language of the contract. They can do as much as they want for outside of the “domestic and international” definitions (ie. within Europe)



They removed the limitation in the TA, and the penalty system even pays LOWER if they are REDUCING TOTAL FLEET SIZE! It is spelled out in their stated example! At minute 10 of the podcast, they state the exact opposite of what is actually written in the new blue language. These are the people telling us to vote for this.



However, if this TA is signed, what is to stop the following scenario:

-The company stops hiring indefinitely…as in never again.

-The company cancels all future orders as soon as the pilot group signs this TA.

-The company continues to retire airframes with the MD11s as currently planned, then the Airbus, then the 757 and eventually park or sell the 777 and 767 fleets. It will take several years for sure, but could easily happen with 10-15 years, perhaps much, much sooner.

-They just let the attrition of pilots leaving through retirement and ill-will slowly whittle down the crew force as they need and only keep as many aircraft in the trunk fleet as the current shrinking seniority list can staff. THEY NEVER EVEN HAVE TO FURLOUGH!

-Throughout this whole process above, they just continue to increase the wet-leasing to the lowest bidder as it is “economically necessary” under section 1.b.4.

-There will be penalty payments, but someone could use a spreadsheet to plan them all out…we basically just gave them a planned map as to how to get rid of the trunk operated aircraft and exactly how much it will cost them to do so.



And just like that, the entire FDX master seniority list is completely eroded over a block of time and FedEx moves along its merry way as all its air-freight movement is all done by contract flying….so any potential gain anywhere in the contract is eventually worthless.



ASL has confirmed orders for lots of 767s….they really don’t need those in Europe….what’s to stop them from setting up “ASL America”?



The Company has already stated publicly they want to use more non-purple tails, and it can be read on page 13 of the FedEx Investors Meeting Transcript – June 29, 2022. Link to full transcript:



https://s21.q4cdn.com/665674268/file...3-Q231rOn8YMR4 (https://s21.q4cdn.com/665674268/file...3-Q231rOn8YMR4)

Ok, I'll chime in too.
These are my points like it or not.:)
1. I'm a 1996 and my new hire pay was insulting. it was $2,000/month. After I finished, line pay was $33/month. Thank god I had a military job so I could at least pay my mortgage. I had to pay for my lodging while my friends at AA/DL/UA were given rooms. I wasn't proud to be at FedEx when I got hired, it was my last choice. 1996 wasn't a boom year for hiring anywhere but I was happy to have what I figured was a stepping stone to the majors.
Things fortunately improved and FedEX is and has been a great place to work at. But after the load the pilots carried during covid, we deserve better than this TA.
2. I don't know any of the MEC or NC members but I DID have faith in them to get us the best contract in the industry.
3. I will definitely be a NO vote because I feel there are certain points, though maybe minor, that should be changed.
4. I am very disappointed in the retirement especially for out guys hitting 65 before 2027. The FAE cap should be at least 400K and there should be not be step increase up to 2027, the 338K cap should be at DOS. The company can't afford to pay only 6,500 more per year for all retirees at DOS? I know of many airlines that went bankrupt, and no, I don't want FedEx to go bankrupt but this contract isn't going to do that. The SMU is a farce and should be a big reason this is voted down. AVA changes, the change to vaca cancel and the 24ch restriction are a few more reasons.
5. OP doesn't obviously sit reserve at FedEX.
6. It is a big deal to people with a long career. And no, it wasn't a priority for the NC.
Voting the TA down is part of the process. DL did it and had better results
I'm going to drink bourbon now, let my 8 year old finish the rest of the post because I have bush to look at and a horse to feed I guess.

I agree.

BoomerBus(Parody Account) <------ Just update your profile name and we will all salute you.

This may be true too. He/She/They have been MIA since the actual TA was released.

After initially viewing the videos and reading through the TA, I found myself disappointed. There are clear concessions regarding scope, R-24, substitution, and a number of other topics. My disappointment turned to anger…“This is the thanks I get for flying through the pandemic while my friends telecommuted, for being quarantined in hotel rooms. For showing up on time and helping to make huge profits for FedEx when others were at home asleep in their beds?”

I have always thought that pilots should not be the primary negotiators in this arena. It is simply not our forte, and these are the results…With that said it obviously benefits The Company to drag this out as long as possible. There will never be full retro pay for any additional time taken to modify the agreement, and if we reject this we will be perceived as entitled and selfish. I can see the spin now: “FedEx pilots reject $400,000/year salaries.”

Hypothetically, if there is a “No” vote where does that leave us?...A negotiating committee that must be disbanded, a Union leadership we don’t trust, and a fractured pilot group still looking at many months if not years before a new agreement can be negotiated and ratified.

A 99% strike vote surely resonated, which is a primary reason we are here. However it comes down to numbers now. The time for knee jerk reactions has passed. We had an opportunity to “strike while the iron was hot,” but is it still?…I am uncertain. What I do know is that I am tired…

At a fundamental level what is the Time Value of (your) Money? Please run the numbers in your own personalized scenario…What kind of raise two years from now would be required if this TA were to be rejected in order to offset the present value of the raise, signing bonus, and compounding interest on the compensation package as it now stands? Each of us has to remove emotion from the equation and decide for themselves what is best for their own future.

I have been struggling to understand how so many on the MEC voted to send this to us. What I am left with is that this is the best that they felt they could do….Regardless of the outcome I appreciate their efforts on our behalf.

if the TA gets approved, the new concessions to Scope threaten our very jobs here. There are no pay rates or retirement plans that are adequate enough to potentially allow the company to exploit a very (VERY) loose Scope section and outsource FedEx pilot jobs to the lowest bidders.

Remove emotions - Yes
Remove integrity - No

Consider the Time Value of Money - Sure
Limiting our TVM Horizon to just the next 2-3 Years - No

Improving Retirement (For All ) - Yes
Paying for It with Scheduling Restrictions/Concessions - No

Tired is a bad way to fly - it's also a terrible way to negotiate.

In Unity (for Everyone)
DLax

you truly are a broken man.

If this passes, will still won’t have a union leadership that we trust. We may never see another CBA again. We will lose hundreds if not thousands of pilot jobs. Career progression will be over. Etc.

voting yes and voting no both lead down long hard roads, but unless you’re closing in fast on retirement, voting no is the only road that might have a future for us.

This MEC has been putting the lotion on its skin for so long that they actually think selling out the rest of the crew force so a few pilots can get a small bump on their way out the door is worth it. Plus they finally get their wet dream of the pancake special that they have been dying to ram down our throats for the last 4 years. The are fatigued just like you and just want it to end, and are using fear tactics that it will take too long to recover our "gains" if we have to go back to the table to make it sound like we have no choice but to ratify.

Scope and our integrity are worth the delay. Vote NO.

It is blatantly obvious to me that the OP is either management or a troll poster. You don't say things like, " All this Scope talk, well it was not even an issue in the surveys that we all submitted, so why is it such a big deal to some of you now? You can’t just keep moving the goal posts during negotiations", unless you're scamming in some way. All pilots are aware of how critical scope is, even newhires. And if people didn't make much of an issue of it in the surveys, it's because they didn't ask the question, "Will you trade scope away for other improvements?" Scope is one of those things that people take for granted, sadly, until it is under attack. And then it is the only thing that matters.

I hope it’s satire.

I was thinking it may be Raj. After all, this TA reads like something he & the board dreamed up before negotiations began.

Please vote this contract in. I have friends at ACMI carriers that want to do more of your flying.

Clearly there are a lot of Purple Pilots whose humor detectors are MEL'd.

We'll all have plenty of time to think about the money when the ramp is full of ACMI jets painted purple and white with "FedEx, Operated by Atlas Air" on the nose.

Counting those sweet, sweet $400 wet lease penalty payments.

So let me see if I got this right. We can’t open scope but the Company can? Really….