Pull the TA?
06-19-2023, 12:13 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,093
Originally Posted by MEMFO4Ever
Most of us are here because it is the first place that called.
maybe during your time they were more desperate and hired knuckledraggers like you, but we’re trying to prevent that from happening again so this TA is a no.
Same sh!t trips 28 years later. W2 is higher? Then it is a yes.
06-19-2023, 06:04 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 446
I speak against TA1. It does not meet our goals. It looks more like a chapter 11 bankruptcy TA than an industry leading TA.
1. We give away jobs and penalty money in section 1. (potentially lots of jobs and lots of penalty money)
2. We give away Credit hours for Block hours in scope section (how many credit hours do we loose it they wet lease MEM-DFW, SHV, ATL, BHM, STL, IND, OKC, TUL, etc. and the same can be asked about the short flights to and from the IND and OAK hubs as well)
3. We don't guarantee WB pay rates in the penalty section.
4. We sunset our pension and relieve the company of Billions in pension liabilities to receive notional monies that they manage and we assume all the risks.
5. Notional monies don't pay the bills.
6. Our traditional pension improvements have less buying power than the pension had in '15. ( Hint: not an improvement)
7. The pension fund is well funded, what happens to the "extra" monies in the traditional pension?
8. We give away jobs for SMU.
9. Our pay rate increase does not meet or beat inflation since our last pay raise. (Hint, Delta's and AA's does)
10. Don't be confused by a higher percent improvement, its your pay rate that matters.
In short TA1 did not meet the goals. I would rather have been ICE'd by the mediator than give up all these junior jobs. These "gains" are not worth one job.
Bonus question: Does your SMU bank and all other banks stay with you if you are furloughed?
Second bonus question: What's 11% of zero?
1. We give away jobs and penalty money in section 1. (potentially lots of jobs and lots of penalty money)
2. We give away Credit hours for Block hours in scope section (how many credit hours do we loose it they wet lease MEM-DFW, SHV, ATL, BHM, STL, IND, OKC, TUL, etc. and the same can be asked about the short flights to and from the IND and OAK hubs as well)
3. We don't guarantee WB pay rates in the penalty section.
4. We sunset our pension and relieve the company of Billions in pension liabilities to receive notional monies that they manage and we assume all the risks.
5. Notional monies don't pay the bills.
6. Our traditional pension improvements have less buying power than the pension had in '15. ( Hint: not an improvement)
7. The pension fund is well funded, what happens to the "extra" monies in the traditional pension?
8. We give away jobs for SMU.
9. Our pay rate increase does not meet or beat inflation since our last pay raise. (Hint, Delta's and AA's does)
10. Don't be confused by a higher percent improvement, its your pay rate that matters.
In short TA1 did not meet the goals. I would rather have been ICE'd by the mediator than give up all these junior jobs. These "gains" are not worth one job.
Bonus question: Does your SMU bank and all other banks stay with you if you are furloughed?
Second bonus question: What's 11% of zero?
06-19-2023, 09:14 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,109
Originally Posted by Nightflyer
This. I'd like a 99% no vote, but I am realistic. I'll settle for 80%. It needs to be a resounding "no" if we are going to be able to fix this mess.
06-19-2023, 09:19 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,109
Originally Posted by Stan446
Funny and spot on. I've known guys that were furloughed from AA and ended up at DL. Guys here pulling up posts from 2015 and acting like the world is ending. Every contract has been the same crap and a minority of guys wanting to burn the place down. I wonder how many of the hard NO guys here flew extra during negotiations? I've posted several times that we had the chance to get what we wanted last year when we were hauling record loads. Enough FedEx pilots felt it was in their better interest to work overtime, and now here we are. It’s a contract, vote and move on or find a job at a place you want to be.
06-19-2023, 09:23 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 1,109
Originally Posted by Shaman
Maybe you should stop reading this stuff it triggers you so much.
The rest of the industry looks at this pilot group and either shakes their heads or laughs knowing that or contracts will do nothing for pattern based bargaining.
Lastly the overtime argument is old tired and wrong. We cannot just arbitrarily with hold our labor. There is a process and we should make our list and stand strong when the time comes. It's pretty sad that folks with your point of view cannot understand there's a gulf if difference between "burning the place down" and demanding a contract that befits the extraordinary efforts this crew force made when the company made the call. They owe us.
You've made it quite clear the fight is too much for you. Im willing to wait 2 more. I am also willing to collect zero dollars and work zero hours if thats what it takes. I fully understand that many of you arent built for that, but if you want it that's what it could take.
If not vote yes and stop reading this stuff
The rest of the industry looks at this pilot group and either shakes their heads or laughs knowing that or contracts will do nothing for pattern based bargaining.
Lastly the overtime argument is old tired and wrong. We cannot just arbitrarily with hold our labor. There is a process and we should make our list and stand strong when the time comes. It's pretty sad that folks with your point of view cannot understand there's a gulf if difference between "burning the place down" and demanding a contract that befits the extraordinary efforts this crew force made when the company made the call. They owe us.
You've made it quite clear the fight is too much for you. Im willing to wait 2 more. I am also willing to collect zero dollars and work zero hours if thats what it takes. I fully understand that many of you arent built for that, but if you want it that's what it could take.
If not vote yes and stop reading this stuff
06-19-2023, 09:55 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,057
Originally Posted by Tuck
...I’m guessing DE shaw and friends would love a NO vote.
06-19-2023, 10:11 AM
#27
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: 777FO
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by CloudSailor
Tuck, management would love a YES vote. Don't you get it? This CBA will make them a pile of money, after everything we give up is accounted for.
06-19-2023, 10:23 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Fetal in the hub
Posts: 410
Originally Posted by Tuck
Number one extra flyer here. Somehow shaman equates extra flying with with holding our labor. It’s EXTRA and it’s always a personal choice. I’m not surprised.
06-19-2023, 11:22 AM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 81
LCA student lines are PBS
Under the newly proposed SMU, there will be fewer line holders in the right seat. It’s an arbitrage opportunity for a junior FO but they’ve only robbed their future selves. I& this is going to be the case then an LCA should not be clogging up a left seat line either. Let them cobble together their oven trips by buying the trips from the entire crew. That way both seats benefit when training must be conducted, not that much will be when our flying shrinks due to outsourcing. This is a typical case of the company negotiators carving out a group to leverage votes against them by getting others to believe it won’t affect them, while a win win solution is ignored.
Expense reports stink and are being levered against us, but that is not an area to give concessions for.
Expense reports stink and are being levered against us, but that is not an area to give concessions for.
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