Furlough
07-06-2023 | 07:04 PM
#21
Banned
Joined: Aug 2019
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This is absolute fearmongering and trying to get pilots hired since COVID to vote for this TA! Unconscionable! This TA is killing the A-plan and replacing it with a cash balance plan that fails to match Delta's contribution.
This TA is NOT in the best interest of new hires. 600-800 old pilots ARE NOT going to retire if this TA passes. FedEx will not let that happen.
This TA is NOT in the best interest of new hires. 600-800 old pilots ARE NOT going to retire if this TA passes. FedEx will not let that happen.
07-06-2023 | 07:11 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 32
From: 4A2FU
Still would rather be furloughed under current CBA where I know I'll spend shorter time on furlough because of a higher wet-lease penalty that will make wet leasing less practical.
To me that would beat getting some laughable amount of $$ on a wet-lease check while I watch ATLAS/Sun Country/MESA/ATI/Hawaiian/Western Global/Amerijet fly our freight. Besides, that wetlease check will probably just reduce my unemployment check... so its really not giving me any extra money that I wouldn't have had anyway.
Under TA penalty can be up to 2.5 times Current CBA penalty…also, with TA, payrates are higher therefore penalty is higher, so under TA if you were furloughed, you’d see a lot more money, so you’d probably rather be furloughed under the TA instead of CBA… it would suck either way and hope it doesn’t happen for you…
07-06-2023 | 07:50 PM
#23
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,371
Likes: 11
Yeah I'm aware of that, thank you.
Still would rather be furloughed under current CBA where I know I'll spend shorter time on furlough because of a higher wet-lease penalty that will make wet leasing less practical.
To me that would beat getting some laughable amount of $$ on a wet-lease check while I watch ATLAS/Sun Country/MESA/ATI/Hawaiian/Western Global/Amerijet fly our freight. Besides, that wetlease check will probably just reduce my unemployment check... so its really not giving me any extra money that I wouldn't have had anyway.
This is not true at all. The TA penalty will be significantly less than the current CBA penalty due to them using block hours instead of credit hours, and they will be able to wetlease a lot more lift for a lot less money. They'll gain a bunch of free wetleasing before they even trigger the scope penalty payments, and then after that they'll get reduced scope penalty payments until they trigger the full 2x SPR payment, which will still be discount for them over current book due to the new formula.
Still would rather be furloughed under current CBA where I know I'll spend shorter time on furlough because of a higher wet-lease penalty that will make wet leasing less practical.
To me that would beat getting some laughable amount of $$ on a wet-lease check while I watch ATLAS/Sun Country/MESA/ATI/Hawaiian/Western Global/Amerijet fly our freight. Besides, that wetlease check will probably just reduce my unemployment check... so its really not giving me any extra money that I wouldn't have had anyway.
This is not true at all. The TA penalty will be significantly less than the current CBA penalty due to them using block hours instead of credit hours, and they will be able to wetlease a lot more lift for a lot less money. They'll gain a bunch of free wetleasing before they even trigger the scope penalty payments, and then after that they'll get reduced scope penalty payments until they trigger the full 2x SPR payment, which will still be discount for them over current book due to the new formula.
07-06-2023 | 08:02 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 32
From: 4A2FU
07-06-2023 | 08:35 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 32
From: 4A2FU
Significant discount? How much? A couple million only if the fleet INCREASES in size. How is the fleet going to be INCREASING in size if we are furloughing? You honestly think a couple million dollars will prevent wet leases if the company needs them? The new language adds hard limits that DIDN’T exist before. You are just plain wrong.
No it doesn't add hard limits. The union even admits there are no hard limits and that the only thing that matters at the end of the day is the penalty payment. The new language lowers the penalty payments by several million dollars.
Current CBA Scope calculation was based on credit only because a hypothetical trip had to be made for scope calculation on block vs credit. To simplify this calculation block is used in the same manner to build a trip for calculations. The difference is negligible per the Scope chairman at the road show. Once again you are inflating or just plain lying.
07-06-2023 | 08:59 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 32
From: 4A2FU
NO NO NO. Read my previous post regarding how they came up with “credit” under our current CBA language. Do a DART and the Scope Committee Chair will tell you that you are wrong like I have numerous times. The block vs credit is negligible and simplifies the calculation and captures credit previously not captured.
From TA website - Penalties are anticipated to be less than the current structure; however, wet leasing hours not currently captured would be included in the new calculation and the new SPR definition will result in higher payment for each credit hour in some instances.
The only reason penalties are less using the most recent Atlas wet lease as an example is because the fleet size INCREASED. Under a decreasing fleet scenario this same dynamic is not true. Especially if furloughs occurred then 2.5 kicks into place.
Im done spoon feeding you the real information. Do some homework.
From TA website - Penalties are anticipated to be less than the current structure; however, wet leasing hours not currently captured would be included in the new calculation and the new SPR definition will result in higher payment for each credit hour in some instances.
The only reason penalties are less using the most recent Atlas wet lease as an example is because the fleet size INCREASED. Under a decreasing fleet scenario this same dynamic is not true. Especially if furloughs occurred then 2.5 kicks into place.
Im done spoon feeding you the real information. Do some homework.
This whole thing is a joke and the fact that they sent it to us is embarrassing.
07-06-2023 | 09:02 PM
#27
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 917
Likes: 2
Youre a fool if you don’t see this coming. They’re laying the groundwork to farm out our flying and furlough us expensive fdx pilots.
07-06-2023 | 10:35 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 102
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07-07-2023 | 12:16 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 568
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From: Stuck in Purple Limbo
Tony C’s message…I have yet to see anyone validly dispute his findings. So please enlighten us…
SCOPE
The first section of the TA is §1. Recognition, Scope, and Successorship. Scope has drawn a great deal of attention lately, and given the communications we have recently received from the highest level of management, it is understandable that many of us are fearful for our future jobs. Our Negotiating Committee Chair addressed scope at length during our April Joint Council Briefing and we can view that address in a YouTube video. While you might have been prepared then for no improvements in our scope language, I doubt you were prepared for a degradation. With more flexibility to wet lease and lower monetary penalties, our scope protection has actually been significantly weakened.
In exchange for that concession, we have what I consider to be symbolic improvements for wet leasing during §4.A.2.c. and during furloughs. While The Company cannot enter into any new wet lease agreements or extend or renew wet lease agreements during §4.A.2.c., they can enter into any number of long-term wet lease agreements on one day and invoke §4.A.2.c. the next day, and continue those wet lease agreements.
Additionally, there is no limit on wet lease agreements while under §4.A.2.c. during the “true” peak weeks of the year. Of grave concern is the price we have established for wet leasing while any pilot is on furlough – as low as ˝ of the cost of a Captain and two First Officers for the same block hours.
It is my belief that most FedEx pilots will find the combination of weaker scope protections offset only by symbolic improvements unacceptable, and many will not need to read any further to determine their vote. Pay rates, retirement benefits, and work rules are irrelevant if jobs are lost.
SCOPE
The first section of the TA is §1. Recognition, Scope, and Successorship. Scope has drawn a great deal of attention lately, and given the communications we have recently received from the highest level of management, it is understandable that many of us are fearful for our future jobs. Our Negotiating Committee Chair addressed scope at length during our April Joint Council Briefing and we can view that address in a YouTube video. While you might have been prepared then for no improvements in our scope language, I doubt you were prepared for a degradation. With more flexibility to wet lease and lower monetary penalties, our scope protection has actually been significantly weakened.
In exchange for that concession, we have what I consider to be symbolic improvements for wet leasing during §4.A.2.c. and during furloughs. While The Company cannot enter into any new wet lease agreements or extend or renew wet lease agreements during §4.A.2.c., they can enter into any number of long-term wet lease agreements on one day and invoke §4.A.2.c. the next day, and continue those wet lease agreements.
Additionally, there is no limit on wet lease agreements while under §4.A.2.c. during the “true” peak weeks of the year. Of grave concern is the price we have established for wet leasing while any pilot is on furlough – as low as ˝ of the cost of a Captain and two First Officers for the same block hours.
It is my belief that most FedEx pilots will find the combination of weaker scope protections offset only by symbolic improvements unacceptable, and many will not need to read any further to determine their vote. Pay rates, retirement benefits, and work rules are irrelevant if jobs are lost.
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