TA 1.5
 

I know there is alot of "recall them all" talk. But given how close this was, wouldn't it be more effective and timelier to seek a targeted improvement and resubmit? 1. Fix the pay rates to true industry leading. 2. fix the backpay to 100% or close to it. 3. Address the scope concerns and restrict any massive wet lease and furlough concerns. We might not even need the mediator involved if these are just term sheet dollar items and a scope side letter clarification. The alternative of recalling everyone, training new members, re-opening sections etc. seems like it would play into the company's divide and delay tactics.

We don’t work for UNICEF. The company delay tactics are inevitable at this point.

I don’t think it was close. We have about 500 on probation who could not vote. This block seemed to be predominantly No. When you factor that in the vote could have potentially be 60s against to 30s for.

We have seen that we have lots of qualified folks ready to step up. I think it is time for MEC/NC to give the process some new blood and energy.

I would like to see a calm transfer of power in the form of resignations vs recalls. We will see how it shakes out.

They (MEC/NC) tried their best, but it was not good enough.

Lastly, the mediator cannot meet before Labor day. We did the first hard step of NO and we should not rush the process.

NO one left behind since amenable date for A plan and no splitting the group with Union busting pension scheme:

I don"t think we would need the mediator to approve an improved term sheet. Why risk reopening and renegotiating everything we have done over the last several years.

It was that aversion to changing course, plus the arrogant attitude and messaging of 13 of the current members of the MEC, that ultimately lead to the TA falling flat on it's face and dividing the crap out of the pilot group. We need new leaders, new surveys, and an overhaul in the attitude and culture to how this pilot group approaches its contract and unionism in general.

First off, we are in mediation. The NMB owns the process from here. So they are mandatory at this point.

Second, The MEC did not do its job. Most wrote unflattering comms talking down to us. They did not represent us. Those who did will be judged by their councils.


Third, with the numbers put out my the MEC Chair, no two items are going to fix this to a 50% +1. Retirement, pay, and SCOPE must be addressed. And SMU, and 100% sell back are gone as well (my guess).


The good news is we can do all this by peak IF the company truly wants good labor relations as the global economy starts to grow again.

There were unrequested, unnecessary and now unapproved scheduling & QOL concessions that also need to be eliminated. I don’t disagree that peak is very important to the company - see the decisions UPS management just made, but a rushed TA 1.5 that gets 50%+1 vote is a win for the company.

In Transparency, Integrity & Unity (for Everyone),
DLax

With respect NoHaz, thankful for everyone's best effort, but all except for TonyC should return to flying the line back with the rest of us chumps.

We need new blood, new energy, and leaders who are starting from a belief, a knowledge, that we can do much better. Our current Reps gave it their very best effort and we know the outcome. The 13 who sent it to us to ratify with the associated sales pitch believed we cannot have possibly earned better than TA1. Why would they stay? I personally don't understand how any one of them would choose to stay and go through the recall process, after having failed so miserably with TA1.

Whatever they choose, it seems a bad idea to repeat the process with the same Reps and hope for a different outcome.

The new blood coming in knows from day 1 we are not using Retirement, a jewel in our CBA, as a divisive wedge in our pilot group. Also, we are not signing in new vague Scope language concessions with this "new company" we now fly for, nor are we giving up senior QOL in exchange for SMU, or giving up junior R24 for industry-worst R16. And we are not giving gained efficiencies to fly our entire BLG for our VAC buyback or VLT/AVA/DRF.

New energy in those leadership seats please.

There are a lot of very sharp guys and girls with the requisite experience ready to step up.

Time for PM and the entire group who sold us TA1 with all their very best and worst efforts, to return to the line. If they are sincerely interested in expediting the path towards TA2, they will step down and avoid the hassles the Recall process creates for all of us (not holding my breath though).

Respectfully, no. I've lost faith in my rep, the other 12, the NC, and MEC Leadership. Time for them to fly the line. This agreement was heavily weighted to A Plan increases for senior pilots leveraged on givebacks, subpar new retirement package, and below market pay rates. The NC knew it, they snowed the Reps with big numbers. How many times did they uncritically repeat "3.8 BILLION! 70m a month!!!", and then sold it hard with threats of furloughs and daily condescending emails. We need to reattack with different characters and get it right. No secrecy, no MEC vote without bullet points, actual democracy.

Nothing personal, just business. It's time for a culture shift at FDX ALPA.

Short list but pretty beefy. I don't think that fix would be "small" to the company, especially if you effectively protect scope. I also think trying to quickly negotiate some band-aids over the TA will reek of desperation and have the pilot group taken advantage of. Unfortunately, the best road forward is probably the lengthy road to a GOOD TA2. A lot of it is in the hands of the mediator.

But I am just an outsider looking in. Good luck guys.

FedEx, the pilot group, is going through some serious changes. I don’t know what was going on in our MEC, but the attitude was one of, “no other airline could be better than us.” It showed in the condescending tone used in spoken and written communications from them. This is a new FedEx. If you carried the jug for this company, that’s great. Remember those days fondly, but admit the company you loved is gone. Everything but the corporate logo has changed. Well north of half of this pilot group does not trust this union to lead them. It is time for change. The new leadership must be more transparent in its intentions. The new NC can not ever ask us to just trust them. They will march into negotiations with specific asks for retirement, pay, etc. if we say industry leading, we mean industry leading. We will increase the A plan or sunset it. This divide the pilot group plan for retirement wreaks of 1988 American B scale crap. It shows how out of touch the NC was with current pilot supply and demand. We all know the company’s leadership team is dug in for the long fight. So be it, we have the upper hand, if we’re patient enough to wait them out. To answer the OP, we can’t trust this leadership team. There are no easy fixes here. I ask that they stick to their word and step down.

Eric Lopkoff
ANC FO

How will the NC go back to the table when in their thinking this was the very best deal they could get and anything more is just not realistic? Do you think Washington DC will change if we keep sending Lady Graham, Mitt Romney, Mitch McConnell, etc.? At some point smash mouth must be employed. No more patty cake with the lawyers. They have too much baggage with the folks across the table. Just my opinion.

Very well said.

It's a new day here and PSP is long gone in the rearview mirror. Unfortunate, but it's the reality of the situation.

Glad to know you are stepping up in ANC.

I tend to agree. We need a little trim not a D
check.

[QUOTE=NoHaz;3672902]I know there is alot of "recall them all" talk. But given how close this was, wouldn't it be more effective and timelier to seek a targeted improvement and resubmit? 1. Fix the pay rates to true industry leading. 2. fix the backpay to 100% or close to it. 3. Address the scope concerns and restrict any massive wet lease and furlough concerns. We might not even need the mediator involved if these are just term sheet dollar items and a scope side letter clarification. The alternative of recalling everyone, training new members, re-opening sections etc. seems like it would play into the company's divide and delay tactics.

I tend to agree.

It’s possible..
 

I would agree to mending the pay rates and retro payment, along additional language on Scope.. Then re-submit..

You sure about your math there? :)

You forgot getting rid of the ridiculous, non industry standard, JV quality of life concessions.

I am okay with it, but feel free to check it out.

2871 against
2162 for
500 (I n probation and no vote for TA 1.0)
5533 total

2871/5533=51.9%
2162/5533=39.1%
500/5533=9.0%

looks like 60s to me

I did not include the 86 votes that did not register an against or for.

Thanks all for getting the hard part done! Time to get some new blood and energy in the process, preferably with resignations rather than recalls.

Time to March towards a TA that leaves No retiree behind since amenable date and does not feature Union busting pension schemes.

Brown guy here with a question: was there a movement from pilots to sunset the A plan prior to the TA coming out, or was this a total surprise like it was to us outsiders? Where did the idea come from? Thanks!

Need to repeal scheduling/QOL concessions too. We need to keep FedEx a place where it’s good to fly the line and pilots maintain max flexibility to adjust their schedules without killing their pay

Total surprise. Like being stabbed in the back surprised.

It was an absolute, 100% surprise to us line-flying chumps when the TA was released.

Keep in mind, our NC attempted to negotiate away our A plan in exchange for an unproven cash balance plan for a couple of years before Section 6 negotiations even began!!

During negotiations, when asked about the rumors about sunsetting the A plan, and the "Cheiron Scheme" cash balance plan, we were told by our NC and Reps that the rumors were false and to just sit tight and patiently wait for Retirement to be unveiled, it was going to blow our minds away. I guess it did.

From other posts it sounds like you are over staffed. Always try and look at what leverage both sides have. I suspect your current voting rules do not allow furloughed pilots to vote. I would consider amending that so the company does not decide to furlough those pilots to remove no votes.

you forgot the NC chair sending his ‘wife’ to Facebook to directly implore sour spouses to pressure us.

That was....unconscionable.

another brown guy here. I am sure that the union leader ship between you guys and us have kept in contact. And hopefully your next NC comes on board well prepared.

One of our pilots posted on here the method used to lessen the financial burden to the company while maintaining an A plan. It is definitely worth reviewing that because I think we all would like to have a balance between an A plan and a B plan. Companies tend to say the A plan needs to go away because it is financial burden.

A lot of younger pilots believe the A plan is not worth having because of airline history, but what they are missing is that due to that history, the funding guidelines have changed dramatically. Pension plans cannot be nearly as underfunded as they were back in the day.

No surprise. The NC spent millions on developing a new plan for retirement that they tried to sell the company outside of section 6 about 5 years ago. The company laughed and said no thanks.

Recall/resign is the first step
 

Having new reps would guard against them sending us a "turd" to divide us. How long is the process of replacing and training the NC/ MEC? I can wait, and am willing to vote for full retro and amendable date retirement. This is about setting a new precedent in the next contract. Who cares if we can open negotiations 6 mo early? The company is probably still laughing about that one.

Regarding the A plan, we must decide if we are willing to roll over on it. If so, the company needs to compensate us with a buyout. How much is fair? I don't know since the true cost of the A plan is unknown to me and not a direct comparison to B fund and pancakes. Many of us including those about to retire could get on board with a lump sum, perhaps with a tax advantaged rollover option, because, you know, the time value of money and all that. The burden would be on us to take responsibility for how we direct the money. It would get the company out of future funding burdens. But this could harm the future of those who already have a full pension or are retired now, as the plan withers away. Maybe language could be included to protect them? At any rate, it would be best for those on property with a good deal of years remaining, and new hires, if we were on the same retirement scheme. I can't completely trust the A plan or MBCBP, government controls the B fund rules and taxes, so I'd like industry leading pay to enjoy a good life and make some of my own investments.

I could be bought out of my A plan - I think most of us could. If a healthy and profitable company really wants to leave the A plan behind though, it's unreasonable for them to think that it's not gonna leave a mark. They will need to view it as an investment in their future and it will cost a pretty penny. There will also have to be a very satisfactory replacement going forward.

Lol. That’s funny.

Utterly unconscionable…. Especially after he tell us to stay off social media. Stay in your lane Mrs M.

Wilson Says TonyTicker is live https://www.fdxjetflyers.com/ticker/tonyticker.html

We don’t want TA 1.5.

almost everything about TA 1.0 was a total failure and that makes it a horrible platform to build on.

You are so salty 😂😂😂

I love it. Hopefully it keeps you up at night, you’ll need that skill when the postal contract is done and you’re back to flying domestic AM hub turns.

no you would have to be completely oblivious to not know that was the plan IF we wanted to improve A plan for those on property. That was talked about among LECs for years. It was either that OR go with something like a PSPP/MBCBP for all and a bonus of sorts for those retiring soon. Crew force was tepid for PSPP to begin with. Cutler himself was HUGE on improving A plan and knew that the only way to do it was to sunset it.

millions? How ignorant are you? Ever ask your rep or just determine that for yourself. Well under $1mil - you have to ask to know though - or you can keep spewing complete BS on social media. Hope your wife is in charge of finances at the house.

So everything was bad? Not one good thing in it? You’d rather start over and open everything because now, the guys that weren’t here when we started and built openers want their cake and want to eat it too? Tell u what - u aren’t going to get more than the published $3.8B in value - not from this crew force which has grown weaker in the last few years (never seen so much overflying during negotiations for example) . So want to move money around? Or you want to start over and see who can wait longer - The $100B Company with a real desire to not increase unions on property or the 5800 of us - including 1500 hires in last three years with weaker than historical credentials and whiny attitudes (we constantly lowered our minimums and rarely ever said no to anyone in last 3 years) ? Think I’ll go with option A.

… because it took so much talent for you to monitor the engines on a 727 and not forget the coffee..


best on the job training in the industry.

If anyone is wondering why the rhetoric from the pro-TA crowd has been stepped up today, it's because the recalls of our out-of-touch representatives began formally yesterday. The motion to recall TC (the only MEC member to vote against the TA) overwhelmingly failed, and the motion to recall the block 5 and 7 reps overwhelmingly passed. They're seeing their stranglehold on this pilot group slip away, and are desperately hoping to stop the other reps from being recalled.

Pretty sad that none of them resigned, honestly. If they did, it would allow us to move toward the next deal faster. Instead, we have to spend months cleaning house first. By the unions own math, this is costing the pilot group $70M/month.