It seems to me that there is a lot of bad blood directed at PM. His sales job of TA 1.0 was terrible I agree. But my understanding is he received his marching orders from the MEC. I think our disgust is miss directed, it should be directed at our old MEC Chair that was trying to get a big retirement bump prior to walking out the door this spring. We need to lay the blame for the failed TA at the feet of Chris Norman.

Our strike vote was great but we all know that a strike was never a reality. The NMB would never let us strike while we carried the US Mail. I do believe that our voting down the contract carried much more weight with the company than the strike vote.

It doesn't matter. In the end, regardless of new MEC directives, it's Pat, likely sitting across from the very same company negotiators as before. The same negotiators that he likely has a rapport with; the same negotiators that knows his children's names, his wife's hobbies, and perhaps have been out to grab a drink or bite to eat with, even maybe played golf with. They know each other too well; when they last left, they were in agreement that the company just couldn't budge any more, there was no more juice to squeeze. Now we send Pat back, and he sits across the table from the very same faces a few months ago, asking for more juice, a bigger pie. What do those negotiators say to Pat, who they already told that there was absolutely no more juice left to squeeze? What can you say to someone you have too much rapport with already?

The answer is, you absolutely must put a new, fresh face across from the company negotiators. Rapport is NOT your friend here during round two of negotiations if you're looking for something different. And we need something very different from what we got last time around.

Quoted for truth. Well said.

Also, I am worried that PM will "move money around", like the company proposal to do away with BKO, and rob one part of the crew force to pay another.

What we need is a bigger pie!!!

PM has got to go, or we will be forced to vote down TA 1.1 and wait even more time for the deal we have already earned.

Straight out of PD's mouth..

Rapport or not, you are expecting the company to capitulate and say to a new NC: "jk bros we actually DO have more JUICE for you guys! We were just waiting for your bros to send in a new team we don't have rapport with to get the deal done lol!"

Make it make sense? I have voiced my displeasure with the NC too via DARTs and our surveys. However, having been on the negotiating team in my previous life, business is business and no one in the room is your friend.

ALPA not the company says our TA was worth more per pilot than Delta's or United's. Yes I want more money, but how much more do you believe there is?

ALPA has said a lot of things in the last six months the company has not said.

There is definitely more money. United is the most recent example that made huge gains. Going from from $2B on TUMI TA to over $9B. And they too said that was all they could muster. Only to make major gains. American also made major gains.

It doesn’t come down to what corporate hands down. It comes down to the pilot group fortitude on what we’re willing to accept.

How could we make the profits we did when compared to United and then not have the money to release when they do? That’s the part that doesn’t make sense.

A change of NC is probably needed. And if PM said he was going to step down, he should. I doubt he's got much credibility now.