[QUOTE=Nightflyer;3743394]What I care about is that "my" union LIED to me in order to attempt to sell me a sub-standard contract. The valuation they put on the TA was bogus, plain and simple. It is a made up number, with no bearing in reality.

Unless we know how much the company saved by sunsetting the A plan, we will never know how much we "gained" compared to other airlines.
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You will never know what the company gained or lost by sunsetting or increasing a pension. To cost this, you would need all actuarial data of our crewforce/retirees and a crystal ball to determine bond rates and market performance over thirty years. If we all knew what the S&P was going to end at next year, we could all be billionaires.

For example, over the last X years when interest rates were below historical norms, the company had to write large checks to keep the pension fund at the appropriate actuarial level... but right now, the pension "could" be cash flow neutral or positive even with an increase to benefits paid. That's the rub... nobody knows the future and everyone hates variables in their lives. For the company, sunsetting the pension is eliminating an unknown variable headache for future cost analysis. The pension costs could literally be "free" to the company for many years w/ money mkt rates at +5%... but they are rightfully worried about another long period of near zero interest rates.

Worry less about what it costs or saves the company... and more about what it takes to make you comfortable.

If we really went "all in" on increasing the pension, we would have raised the A plan to IRS limits. If the TA had passed, the A plan would have never been increased again. The numbers proposed, and the delay in getting to the final number, were a complete joke.

So your premium is delta +150% ok at least I know where you stand

[QUOTE=willflyforfud;3743406]The company knows, or at least they have a guess, or they would not want it gone so badly.

We are way, way more profitable than Delta, so we should be worth more.

Delta made 2 billion last quarter and we made .1.28 billion we aren't way more profitable

Look at the last 5 years.

FedEx net income for the twelve months ending August 31, 2023 was $4.175B, a 16.33% increase year-over-year. FedEx annual net income for 2023 was $3.972B, a 3.82% increase from 2022. FedEx annual net income for 2022 was $3.826B, a 26.86% decline from 2021.

https://www.macrotrends.net › charts

Delta Air Lines net income for the twelve months ending September 30, 2023 was $3.400B, a 3996.39% increase year-over-year. Delta Air Lines annual net income for 2022 was $1.318B, a 370.71% increase from 2021. Delta Air Lines annual net income for 2021 was $0.28B, a 102.26% decline from 2020.

https://www.macrotrends.net › charts

So there record best year still doesn’t match our struggling package delivery service. Prior years data shows they make a little more than half our net income.

But PM said himself that we shouldn’t compare ourselves to Delta. we should compare ourselves to UPS, “and they are eating our lunch.”

[QUOTE=Nightflyer;3743414]They want it(pension) gone so badly because THEY don't know what it will actually cost. They know exactly what their liability is if we convert to a % of pay which is calculable from total hours flown, and payrates... therefore it is a very easily known expense.

As we know, FedEx operates on thin margins... usually in the 3-7% range .. although they would like to get it into the teens So, if you have a rough quarter and margins are low... and a huge check is required to prop up an underfunded pension fund.. they may go negative and get brutalized in the mkt. So what?... that has a dramatic effect on credit and interest rates on bonds for large capital expenditures to buy planes.. build buildings, fancy deice trucks, batmobiles.. etc. The company wants to reduce unknown variables and surprises... that has an intrinsic value during negotiations.

​​​​​They need to compensate us at the market rates. If not, we will become a second tier stepping stone airline that will struggle with massive training cost increases and an unknown future supply of newhires who would want to come here. I have been willing to fly hard nighttime schedules over the years because I thought the pension and pay/vacation were worth it. If the pension goes away and pay is below market, what young pilot would ever want to make a career here? These are the realities the MEC needs to remind the company about....

During the roadshows PM said they surveyed every six months and the surveys guided negotiations. This is in conflict with what you posted here. Where did you get the information that "the MEC hadn't surveyed in almost two years".

I'm doubting that's actually true.