Worth staying?
01-06-2024, 06:41 AM
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2021
Posts: 90
Worth staying?
Is there any reason to stay at FX any longer or is this place going to continue to die long term. My original thought was to wait for the contract and maybe a large amount of retirements would come afterwards and maybe in a year or two the stagnation would reverse to hiring again but I just don’t know anymore. I can’t stand our domestic nb flying and it’s looking more and more like I will be stuck on the 75 for the foreseeable future. What is a reason to stay here anymore?
My main reasons for coming here in the first place were simple but they all seem to be a thing of the past.
1. Main reason I came here was simply for higher pay. I thought with a majority fleet of wb’s I would see wb pay longer in my career especially in the left seat which takes a long time to hold at legacy’s. (Also had no idea some of our own guys including our NC would try to argue why our primarily wb fleet shouldn’t command wb rates) Little did I know I’d be stuck in right seat nb when I could be left seat nb at any pax carrier already making double what I make now.
2. came thinking this company basically printed money and it wasn’t susceptible to career changing downturns. Now this could be argued that if where we are now is as bad as it gets then it’s partially true that even in bad times the worst you see here is stagnation and low blgs.
3. came to fly interesting and different international routes. No I’m flying to the same awful cities staying in the same awful hotels I have been for 10 years.
4. Loved the idea of FDA’s. Both dead probably to never return again.
5. Wanted to avoid pax fa’s and security every day. That’s accomplished but doesn’t come with its own annoyances you don’t realize. Can’t get anything resembling a healthy meal anywhere in aoc. Catering is disgusting. And the constant bag drag into a bus off a bus into another bus on a security belt off a security belt etc. Our egregiously ridiculous tech and websites. My god we don’t even have an app to look at schedules or book jumpseats. All just minor annoyances but so was pax, fa’s, security for me.
I don’t completely hate it here and I know there is good flying to be had with seniority but our domestic am flying is horrendous and I have no interest in doing only that for the next 30 years when I could fly those routes in the daytime at pax and catch a jumpseat home when I am done with my trip instead of 6 hours later like our system. I’ve had two legacy’s basically cold call me recently with voicemails to go to interviews and I’m starting to really think about taking a move more seriously.
My main reasons for coming here in the first place were simple but they all seem to be a thing of the past.
1. Main reason I came here was simply for higher pay. I thought with a majority fleet of wb’s I would see wb pay longer in my career especially in the left seat which takes a long time to hold at legacy’s. (Also had no idea some of our own guys including our NC would try to argue why our primarily wb fleet shouldn’t command wb rates) Little did I know I’d be stuck in right seat nb when I could be left seat nb at any pax carrier already making double what I make now.
2. came thinking this company basically printed money and it wasn’t susceptible to career changing downturns. Now this could be argued that if where we are now is as bad as it gets then it’s partially true that even in bad times the worst you see here is stagnation and low blgs.
3. came to fly interesting and different international routes. No I’m flying to the same awful cities staying in the same awful hotels I have been for 10 years.
4. Loved the idea of FDA’s. Both dead probably to never return again.
5. Wanted to avoid pax fa’s and security every day. That’s accomplished but doesn’t come with its own annoyances you don’t realize. Can’t get anything resembling a healthy meal anywhere in aoc. Catering is disgusting. And the constant bag drag into a bus off a bus into another bus on a security belt off a security belt etc. Our egregiously ridiculous tech and websites. My god we don’t even have an app to look at schedules or book jumpseats. All just minor annoyances but so was pax, fa’s, security for me.
I don’t completely hate it here and I know there is good flying to be had with seniority but our domestic am flying is horrendous and I have no interest in doing only that for the next 30 years when I could fly those routes in the daytime at pax and catch a jumpseat home when I am done with my trip instead of 6 hours later like our system. I’ve had two legacy’s basically cold call me recently with voicemails to go to interviews and I’m starting to really think about taking a move more seriously.
01-06-2024, 06:59 AM
#3
Aspiring PSA Captain
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 824
Originally Posted by ogarmyopar
Is there any reason to stay at FX any longer or is this place going to continue to die long term. My original thought was to wait for the contract and maybe a large amount of retirements would come afterwards and maybe in a year or two the stagnation would reverse to hiring again but I just don’t know anymore. I can’t stand our domestic nb flying and it’s looking more and more like I will be stuck on the 75 for the foreseeable future. What is a reason to stay here anymore?
My main reasons for coming here in the first place were simple but they all seem to be a thing of the past.
1. Main reason I came here was simply for higher pay. I thought with a majority fleet of wb’s I would see wb pay longer in my career especially in the left seat which takes a long time to hold at legacy’s. (Also had no idea some of our own guys including our NC would try to argue why our primarily wb fleet shouldn’t command wb rates) Little did I know I’d be stuck in right seat nb when I could be left seat nb at any pax carrier already making double what I make now.
2. came thinking this company basically printed money and it wasn’t susceptible to career changing downturns. Now this could be argued that if where we are now is as bad as it gets then it’s partially true that even in bad times the worst you see here is stagnation and low blgs.
3. came to fly interesting and different international routes. No I’m flying to the same awful cities staying in the same awful hotels I have been for 10 years.
4. Loved the idea of FDA’s. Both dead probably to never return again.
5. Wanted to avoid pax fa’s and security every day. That’s accomplished but doesn’t come with its own annoyances you don’t realize. Can’t get anything resembling a healthy meal anywhere in aoc. Catering is disgusting. And the constant bag drag into a bus off a bus into another bus on a security belt off a security belt etc. Our egregiously ridiculous tech and websites. My god we don’t even have an app to look at schedules or book jumpseats. All just minor annoyances but so was pax, fa’s, security for me.
I don’t completely hate it here and I know there is good flying to be had with seniority but our domestic am flying is horrendous and I have no interest in doing only that for the next 30 years when I could fly those routes in the daytime at pax and catch a jumpseat home when I am done with my trip instead of 6 hours later like our system. I’ve had two legacy’s basically cold call me recently with voicemails to go to interviews and I’m starting to really think about taking a move more seriously.
My main reasons for coming here in the first place were simple but they all seem to be a thing of the past.
1. Main reason I came here was simply for higher pay. I thought with a majority fleet of wb’s I would see wb pay longer in my career especially in the left seat which takes a long time to hold at legacy’s. (Also had no idea some of our own guys including our NC would try to argue why our primarily wb fleet shouldn’t command wb rates) Little did I know I’d be stuck in right seat nb when I could be left seat nb at any pax carrier already making double what I make now.
2. came thinking this company basically printed money and it wasn’t susceptible to career changing downturns. Now this could be argued that if where we are now is as bad as it gets then it’s partially true that even in bad times the worst you see here is stagnation and low blgs.
3. came to fly interesting and different international routes. No I’m flying to the same awful cities staying in the same awful hotels I have been for 10 years.
4. Loved the idea of FDA’s. Both dead probably to never return again.
5. Wanted to avoid pax fa’s and security every day. That’s accomplished but doesn’t come with its own annoyances you don’t realize. Can’t get anything resembling a healthy meal anywhere in aoc. Catering is disgusting. And the constant bag drag into a bus off a bus into another bus on a security belt off a security belt etc. Our egregiously ridiculous tech and websites. My god we don’t even have an app to look at schedules or book jumpseats. All just minor annoyances but so was pax, fa’s, security for me.
I don’t completely hate it here and I know there is good flying to be had with seniority but our domestic am flying is horrendous and I have no interest in doing only that for the next 30 years when I could fly those routes in the daytime at pax and catch a jumpseat home when I am done with my trip instead of 6 hours later like our system. I’ve had two legacy’s basically cold call me recently with voicemails to go to interviews and I’m starting to really think about taking a move more seriously.
The one thing we all missed in our assessment was the possibility of all of the positive factors being eliminated from within by the company.
01-06-2024, 07:49 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2023
Position: 727 Flight Engineer
Posts: 112
Originally Posted by ogarmyopar
Is there any reason to stay at FX any longer or is this place going to continue to die long term. My original thought was to wait for the contract and maybe a large amount of retirements would come afterwards and maybe in a year or two the stagnation would reverse to hiring again but I just don’t know anymore. I can’t stand our domestic nb flying and it’s looking more and more like I will be stuck on the 75 for the foreseeable future. What is a reason to stay here anymore?
My main reasons for coming here in the first place were simple but they all seem to be a thing of the past.
1. Main reason I came here was simply for higher pay. I thought with a majority fleet of wb’s I would see wb pay longer in my career especially in the left seat which takes a long time to hold at legacy’s. (Also had no idea some of our own guys including our NC would try to argue why our primarily wb fleet shouldn’t command wb rates) Little did I know I’d be stuck in right seat nb when I could be left seat nb at any pax carrier already making double what I make now.
2. came thinking this company basically printed money and it wasn’t susceptible to career changing downturns. Now this could be argued that if where we are now is as bad as it gets then it’s partially true that even in bad times the worst you see here is stagnation and low blgs.
3. came to fly interesting and different international routes. No I’m flying to the same awful cities staying in the same awful hotels I have been for 10 years.
4. Loved the idea of FDA’s. Both dead probably to never return again.
5. Wanted to avoid pax fa’s and security every day. That’s accomplished but doesn’t come with its own annoyances you don’t realize. Can’t get anything resembling a healthy meal anywhere in aoc. Catering is disgusting. And the constant bag drag into a bus off a bus into another bus on a security belt off a security belt etc. Our egregiously ridiculous tech and websites. My god we don’t even have an app to look at schedules or book jumpseats. All just minor annoyances but so was pax, fa’s, security for me.
I don’t completely hate it here and I know there is good flying to be had with seniority but our domestic am flying is horrendous and I have no interest in doing only that for the next 30 years when I could fly those routes in the daytime at pax and catch a jumpseat home when I am done with my trip instead of 6 hours later like our system. I’ve had two legacy’s basically cold call me recently with voicemails to go to interviews and I’m starting to really think about taking a move more seriously.
My main reasons for coming here in the first place were simple but they all seem to be a thing of the past.
1. Main reason I came here was simply for higher pay. I thought with a majority fleet of wb’s I would see wb pay longer in my career especially in the left seat which takes a long time to hold at legacy’s. (Also had no idea some of our own guys including our NC would try to argue why our primarily wb fleet shouldn’t command wb rates) Little did I know I’d be stuck in right seat nb when I could be left seat nb at any pax carrier already making double what I make now.
2. came thinking this company basically printed money and it wasn’t susceptible to career changing downturns. Now this could be argued that if where we are now is as bad as it gets then it’s partially true that even in bad times the worst you see here is stagnation and low blgs.
3. came to fly interesting and different international routes. No I’m flying to the same awful cities staying in the same awful hotels I have been for 10 years.
4. Loved the idea of FDA’s. Both dead probably to never return again.
5. Wanted to avoid pax fa’s and security every day. That’s accomplished but doesn’t come with its own annoyances you don’t realize. Can’t get anything resembling a healthy meal anywhere in aoc. Catering is disgusting. And the constant bag drag into a bus off a bus into another bus on a security belt off a security belt etc. Our egregiously ridiculous tech and websites. My god we don’t even have an app to look at schedules or book jumpseats. All just minor annoyances but so was pax, fa’s, security for me.
I don’t completely hate it here and I know there is good flying to be had with seniority but our domestic am flying is horrendous and I have no interest in doing only that for the next 30 years when I could fly those routes in the daytime at pax and catch a jumpseat home when I am done with my trip instead of 6 hours later like our system. I’ve had two legacy’s basically cold call me recently with voicemails to go to interviews and I’m starting to really think about taking a move more seriously.
01-06-2024, 07:53 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2023
Posts: 170
6. Do you like the idea of a divided retirement? divided pilot group for most of the rest of your career? Good luck to us with future TA negotiations if that happens.
7. Do you like Memphis? is it worth the risk of getting shot in your crash pad while you sleep? Run off the road or shot at while driving to work? Do you enjoy paying for your own crash pad for training while most legacy pilots don't?
8. Do you enjoy our low trip rigs that keep you away from home for more calendar days to secure the same monthly credit as a legacy airline pilot?
9. Are you willing to gamble your career on the fact that the small amount of flying at FedEx that doesn't suck is not guaranteed to stay because ALPA refuses to negotiate for UPS level scope to protect it?
10. Do you like the fact that if you accidently bring a prohibited item through our security, the penalty is significantly worse here than what a pax carrier pilot would face?
11. Do you like flying at night for the same or less as your peers make to fly during the day?
12. Do you like not having 24/7 contract enforcement available to prevent scheduling from their shenanigans?
13. Do you like the idea having money stolen or borrowed from your check due to expense report audit incompetency?
14. Do you like getting locked in foreign hotel rooms for days on end, being exposed to unknown chemicals, being served awful food, for no extra money?
15. Do you like having to pay monthly for an app to make bidding and trip trading possible?
16. Do you like being ignored when you ask contract enforcement to file a grievance?
17. Do you like being told that a status quo violation is not going to be contested because it's not a contract violation?
18. Do you like having your insite requests for urgent help ignored for months on end?
19. Do you like getting revised with no extra pay off of a trip you were looking forward to while your jumpseater gets draft pay to fly your more desirable trip?
20. Do you like getting harassed with irregularity reports for calling out sick?
21. Do you like getting awarded a new plane/seat and not having any idea of what year you'll go to training or start getting paid for that seat?
22. Do you like the idea that our next TA will likely allow captains and FOs senior to you to not use any of their vacation and just add it on top of their BLG, which will stagnate your career even more?
23. Do you like the idea of possibly not getting paid for a trip on your line because the company decided to cancel it or change the equipment after you commuted into base?
24. Do you like not getting per diem when you fly an O&B?
25. Do you like not getting paid if they cancel your recurrent training?
26. Do you like hauling around hazardous DG for no extra pay?
27. Do you like riding in economy for 10 hours because the company waited too long to buy a business class ticket and now its sold out?
28. Do you like not having a usable commuter policy?
29. Do you like the idea that the company can extend you up to 1.5/3.5 days off on a domestic/international trip with no restored day off policy?
30. Do you like having layovers less than 10 hours?
31. Do you like not getting profit sharing?
32. Do you like saving the company thousands on deviation and not even seeing a small percentage of that on your check or via profit sharing?
33. Do you like not seeing uniform allowance, international overrides, and other dollar amounts in the CBA being increased to compensate for inflation each bargaining cycle?
34. Do you like the fact that we have one of the worst parental leave policies?
35. Do you enjoy the fact that they can call you out on RA or RB and you have to be there in 60 minutes or less?
This company is printing money, and they are sending the extra billions to shareholders. The issue is that a sizeable part of the pilot group feels like they need to keep their friends in middle managment happy by accepting TAs that just move money around instead of impacting the company's bottom line/shareholder returns. Some of them play dirty and harass/intimidate those who stand up for themselves. Some even go so far as to harass pilots that leave to escape the culture here. Do you want to work with those kind of people that will put a target on your back just because you're not willing to bend over for the company when it comes time to negotiate a contract?
Overall this is a great job, there are some really great aspects to it, but we are getting left in the dust by the entire rest of the industry, even the regionals, and not only do we have to fight the company to be compensated and treated how we should be, but we unfortunately have the burden of also having to fight the pro-company part of the pilot group that is obstructing our fight at every step of the way.
7. Do you like Memphis? is it worth the risk of getting shot in your crash pad while you sleep? Run off the road or shot at while driving to work? Do you enjoy paying for your own crash pad for training while most legacy pilots don't?
8. Do you enjoy our low trip rigs that keep you away from home for more calendar days to secure the same monthly credit as a legacy airline pilot?
9. Are you willing to gamble your career on the fact that the small amount of flying at FedEx that doesn't suck is not guaranteed to stay because ALPA refuses to negotiate for UPS level scope to protect it?
10. Do you like the fact that if you accidently bring a prohibited item through our security, the penalty is significantly worse here than what a pax carrier pilot would face?
11. Do you like flying at night for the same or less as your peers make to fly during the day?
12. Do you like not having 24/7 contract enforcement available to prevent scheduling from their shenanigans?
13. Do you like the idea having money stolen or borrowed from your check due to expense report audit incompetency?
14. Do you like getting locked in foreign hotel rooms for days on end, being exposed to unknown chemicals, being served awful food, for no extra money?
15. Do you like having to pay monthly for an app to make bidding and trip trading possible?
16. Do you like being ignored when you ask contract enforcement to file a grievance?
17. Do you like being told that a status quo violation is not going to be contested because it's not a contract violation?
18. Do you like having your insite requests for urgent help ignored for months on end?
19. Do you like getting revised with no extra pay off of a trip you were looking forward to while your jumpseater gets draft pay to fly your more desirable trip?
20. Do you like getting harassed with irregularity reports for calling out sick?
21. Do you like getting awarded a new plane/seat and not having any idea of what year you'll go to training or start getting paid for that seat?
22. Do you like the idea that our next TA will likely allow captains and FOs senior to you to not use any of their vacation and just add it on top of their BLG, which will stagnate your career even more?
23. Do you like the idea of possibly not getting paid for a trip on your line because the company decided to cancel it or change the equipment after you commuted into base?
24. Do you like not getting per diem when you fly an O&B?
25. Do you like not getting paid if they cancel your recurrent training?
26. Do you like hauling around hazardous DG for no extra pay?
27. Do you like riding in economy for 10 hours because the company waited too long to buy a business class ticket and now its sold out?
28. Do you like not having a usable commuter policy?
29. Do you like the idea that the company can extend you up to 1.5/3.5 days off on a domestic/international trip with no restored day off policy?
30. Do you like having layovers less than 10 hours?
31. Do you like not getting profit sharing?
32. Do you like saving the company thousands on deviation and not even seeing a small percentage of that on your check or via profit sharing?
33. Do you like not seeing uniform allowance, international overrides, and other dollar amounts in the CBA being increased to compensate for inflation each bargaining cycle?
34. Do you like the fact that we have one of the worst parental leave policies?
35. Do you enjoy the fact that they can call you out on RA or RB and you have to be there in 60 minutes or less?
This company is printing money, and they are sending the extra billions to shareholders. The issue is that a sizeable part of the pilot group feels like they need to keep their friends in middle managment happy by accepting TAs that just move money around instead of impacting the company's bottom line/shareholder returns. Some of them play dirty and harass/intimidate those who stand up for themselves. Some even go so far as to harass pilots that leave to escape the culture here. Do you want to work with those kind of people that will put a target on your back just because you're not willing to bend over for the company when it comes time to negotiate a contract?
Overall this is a great job, there are some really great aspects to it, but we are getting left in the dust by the entire rest of the industry, even the regionals, and not only do we have to fight the company to be compensated and treated how we should be, but we unfortunately have the burden of also having to fight the pro-company part of the pilot group that is obstructing our fight at every step of the way.
01-06-2024, 07:54 AM
#6
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2021
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by TheBear
That’s where you showed you’re lying. Unless you had active applications. But that wouldn’t be considered a cold call.
01-06-2024, 08:04 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,030
[QUOTE=ogarmyopar;3746739]Is there any reason to stay at FX any longer or is this place going to continue to die long term. My original thought was to wait for the contract and maybe a large amount of retirements would come afterwards and maybe in a year or two the stagnation would reverse to hiring again but I just don’t know anymore. I can’t stand our domestic nb flying and it’s looking more and more like I will be stuck on the 75 for the foreseeable future. What is a reason to stay here anymore?
Yes. Leave now, after the massive hiring wave at the legacies. Of course the legacies will never go through contract negotiations ever again, furlough.
Yes. Leave now, after the massive hiring wave at the legacies. Of course the legacies will never go through contract negotiations ever again, furlough.
01-06-2024, 08:09 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2023
Posts: 170
Originally Posted by Stan446
Yes. Leave now, after the massive hiring wave at the legacies. Of course the legacies will never go through contract negotiations ever again, furlough.
United even secured a 5% raise during that time. DL secured MBCBP during that time. Then they secured some pretty solid TAs afterward. DL's TA came out as they were barely beginnign to turn a profit. We, on the other hand, gave up the farm despite posting insane profits and still posting profits now.
Even UPS's weak contract extension made us look like clowns.
Last edited by plzdontfireme; 01-06-2024 at 08:28 AM.
01-06-2024, 08:11 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,899
Originally Posted by TheBear
That’s where you showed you’re lying. Unless you had active applications. But that wouldn’t be considered a cold call.
01-06-2024, 08:23 AM
#10
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2021
Posts: 90
Yes. Leave now, after the massive hiring wave at the legacies. Of course the legacies will never go through contract negotiations ever again, furlough.[/QUOTE]
Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute about the state of FX or just want to keep claiming the legacies will falter somehow. What if they don’t? You don’t know the answer to that but the stagnation and problems at FX are very real right now. I wouldn’t have even considered this job if I had even half the insite I do now.
Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute about the state of FX or just want to keep claiming the legacies will falter somehow. What if they don’t? You don’t know the answer to that but the stagnation and problems at FX are very real right now. I wouldn’t have even considered this job if I had even half the insite I do now.
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06-24-2005 02:53 PM
