OK, but what makes it so? Is there no utility in having furlough protections for our most junior guys? Can’t you solve the problem buy killing what is terrible about the provision (SAM) and replacing it simply with HOURS FLOWN? I have yet to hear any good reason for Frankenstein. Extensions, Revisions, Extras, and all of that Extra Work performed by this company’s group of Independent Contractors is included in HOURS FLOWN. It would be stupid to accept any more FRANKENSAM..

The company would figure a way around hours flown. More reserves, more DH ect. It’s their system so they can manipulate it after the rules have been set.

what? you’ve never been in negotiations before? welcome to the big leagues pal!!!! same ole dirty trix!!! nothing new to see here.

sigmund frog

This is all supposedly "to prevent or delay furlough" - which is still entirely at their discretion. If they actually wanted to furlough, they'd have done it. If they ever do want to furlough, they will do it. Have you seen any evidence that their decision making is influenced by our contract?

My takeaway from 4.a.2.b/c BOTH TIMES is that they never wanted to furlough and they wouldn't be furloughing if we were all earning guarantee. We are just gifting them a device with which to harass us. Furlough is expensive and it's execution and undoing both take a long time. 4.a.2.c is an inexpensive way for us to be abused in 8 short weeks at no cost to enter or exit.

If you actually think there's going to be some effective "tightening up" of the language, you're delusional. This IS the "tightened up" version - how's that working out? Wanna go back for more?

Frog, Been in the big leagues since you were in diapers.

You are the one that needs to wake up to the big leagues and understand that no matter what gets put in no matter how airtight you think it might be, the company will figure a way around it.

So wake up and smell the roses. This ain’t no regional negotiations, it’s the big leagues.

i flew f4s in nam so im not sure about all that.

i don’t get it you are just repeating what i said, am i supposed to repeat myself now about how this is the big leagues and this isn’t my first rodeo at the big leagues so you should pony up and get with it?

siggy frog

Valid. No bueno. Not really.

This!

4a2b/c has proven it is useless and can be weaponize at any given time with no repercussions. It needs to go. If the company find itself in an overmanned situation then furlough. We (within the newest version of overmanned numbers) will be fine.

I caught a Jumpseat today on Delta with a Southwest guy. Two Jumpseat airplane. We had a great conversation. I didn’t bring up W-2’s because that would be crass, and also they haven’t been bankrupt, which would pump up my ego a lot!, for over twenty years and now have lapped us in the race. “Reasonable” asks and “reasonable” reps are the solution right? I will leave this place better, or I will light a match and toss it behind me as I walk out the door.

The contract would be 20,000 pages if we had airtight language on every section. It’s not possible.

To solve that we need a level of trust that both sides will adhere to the negotiated intent. So what is that intent? Well for forever it has been unspoken and hasn’t been abused and it’s worked. Until the last 3 years.

Leave 4a2c language in place and draft up a 1 page memorandum of intent clearly laying out the purpose of it, when it can be implemented and more importantly when it cannot. And for the love of god write down the exact formula of the SAM and put in on paper with signatures.