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Old 05-16-2026 | 06:19 PM
  #271  
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From: Legacy FO
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Originally Posted by Sandybeach
You are incorrect, must be international only, otherwise it is protected. Our European flying by ASL is 737’s. Which we don’t fly. Yours is 767 which you fly. How many of our European routes are similar yours where we are not authorized to fly?

How’s that lucrative postal contract working out for UPS?
Ugh ... the same knee jerk ALPA reaction. You're acting like a child. Clearly you don't understand the differences between the FedEx and UPS contract.

Read this again and again until you get it.

"Notwithstanding any other provision of the Agreement, the Company may continue to interline, co-load, code-share, part charter and enter into block space agreements with other carriers to move freight and service in International (outside the contiguous 48 states) markets as required."
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Old 05-16-2026 | 06:23 PM
  #272  
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From: MD-11 FO
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Originally Posted by Precontact
Star operates routes that UPS does not have route authority to operate. IPA scope protects those other intra-Europe and intra-Asia routes as well as trunk routes from outsourcing, something that FedEx pilot do not enjoy. FedEx could replace your Europe-USA and Asia-USA routes tomorrow with contractors. We will never give up these scope protections.
So how come UPS started building MD-11 intra-Europe flying (that the aircraft NEVER did) after the grounding and then started to contract it out if they're scope clause is so awesome?
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Old 05-16-2026 | 06:38 PM
  #273  
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Originally Posted by EMBFlyer
So how come UPS started building MD-11 intra-Europe flying (that the aircraft NEVER did) after the grounding and then started to contract it out if they're scope clause is so awesome?
Why are you making this into a "your scope sucks" issue? Both contracts give the company relief during an emergency. UPS is exploiting the MD situation to their benefit.
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Old 05-17-2026 | 09:22 AM
  #274  
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From: The IPA EB speaks for me
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Originally Posted by EMBFlyer
So how come UPS started building MD-11 intra-Europe flying (that the aircraft NEVER did) after the grounding and then started to contract it out if they're scope clause is so awesome?
To reflect in the grounded fleet's bidpack the flying replaced by subs in a RLA, "emergency".

UPS MD didn't have all the airports in OpSpecs, other tails' flying was pulled out of Europe, plenty to gripe, but a CBA fleet grounding clause and RLA emergency are your framework of a reply.
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Old 05-17-2026 | 09:50 AM
  #275  
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Like I said before,, your scope is a paper tiger.
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Old 05-17-2026 | 10:12 AM
  #276  
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From: Legacy FO
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Originally Posted by Sandybeach
Like I said before,, your scope is a paper tiger.
Why do you say that. Specifics?
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Old 05-17-2026 | 10:20 AM
  #277  
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Originally Posted by Sandybeach
Like I said before,, your scope is a paper tiger.
Your pension is a paper tiger.
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Old 05-17-2026 | 11:17 AM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy
Why do you say that. Specifics?
Because it makes him feel better, most likely.

Every FDX pilot that says IPA international scope is worthless has absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Yeah, the management that has never hesitated to bend or outright ignore the CBA has not violated that "paper tiger" international scope for 35 years because...benevolence? And they only did it this time after a fatal accident, with 9% of the fleet grounded, because subcontracted lift allowed due to that grounding was more readily available in Europe which meant they could bring 767s back domestic to cover flying here.

The post-2976 MD intra-Europe bid package "flying" (that wasn't historically done, listed in OpSpecs for the MD or approved by multiple European governments) was immediately grieved by the IPA and is awaiting expedited arbitration. Now that the MD has been approved for the FAA to fly again, the mechanical emergency permitting subcontracting has ended. Their business decision to retire the fleet is their problem, and continued subcontracting is another scope grievance awaiting expedited arbitration.

We'll all see what happens...

Best of luck on your TA vote, I think it'll ratify with 70-75%.
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Old 05-17-2026 | 11:31 AM
  #279  
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UPS friends say the same thing. They also sent me your scope section. Read over how many belly freight positions they are allowed weekly across the pacific. Will make your eyes water.

If any FedEx pilots listened to the scope section Q&A by the same experts that did your scope they said same thing. Guess you know more than the experts. Familiar theme on APC.
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Old 05-17-2026 | 11:42 AM
  #280  
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I might have a passing familiarity with IPA scope, its origins (who wrote it) and evolution, including current international common carriage limits.

Not gonna try to change your mind, bud...you're free to believe whatever you want.
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