Raptor

It's not long enough for the posts here by either side!😕

FDXLAG

No problem dale, just wanted to point out. A flaw in the UPS IPA approved strategy for FDX Pilots to vote no.

MD114Ever

How many FedEx pilots have left FedEx for a job at UPS? Has there ever been even one? On the other hand, I can't count all of the ex-UPS pilots at FedEx. That's all you need to know to measure the quality of contracts and quality of life at FedEx compared to UPS.

b2pilot186

That's not our strategy...That's the strategy of a few guys on APC...not exactly a quorum. Good luck with your negotiations.

FDXLAG

It is all good, very few of us are in a position to judge each other's contract, I happen to believe ALPA when they say this one is industry leading. Until presented with evidence I have to assume they are correct.

RedeyeAV8r

Your former NMB mediator cannot dictate or demand what you negotiate especially after you have already TA'd it as you stated above. He only tries to move negotiations along and tries to get both parties closer on issues where they are Polar. If the IPA came off their pay proposals, that was their doing. If, and I say if, this was true, IPA could have used that $20/hr concession to gain improvements elsewhere, like Commercial DH's or no Non seniority lists pilots flying freight or an Increase in your A-plan etc etc.

While I will be the first to say that this TA appears to Fall short of our expectations, if you want to cherry pick things at least make it balanced. Note: I say appears because I haven't seen our TA yet and neither have you.
1. FDX Pilot Vacation Policy is superior to IPA's and remains so.
2. FDX commuter/deviation policy is superior to IPA's Policy and hopefully it was improved. I Deadhead to work on PAX carriers, not on FDX Jumpseats. How do you get to work?
3. FDX Pilot Retirement (even with no A-Plan improvements) is better than IPA's. But rumors are we still have our Full A-plan and will have a 9% B-Fund .
4. We do not have NON Seniority Pilots flying Freight.
5. Our INTL override and Now rumored TA ULR Premium is better than yours.
6. I believe our overall Work Rules are better than yours.
7. We are rumored to now Have 6 week bid months. I believe that UPS does too. Is that a Good thing? If it is aBad thing, is that your fault?

As to the 757 and 737 Narrow Body Pay-rate that we agreed to in 2006, I do not recall anyone coming out and complaining about the A-380 Rates at that time. We had 14 on order with options for more. 20/20 hindsight but under your Contract a A-380 would pay the same .
You can make Good/Bad arguments for that. Many in the junior half actually like the reduced pay rate because they get Seniority quicker on a lower paying Aircraft. With a lower paying Seat, many are line holders instead of being on reserve if everything paid the same. As a Line holder here, you can make more money than a equal Seniority # pilot on reserve in a higher paying seat and have better quality of life. I assume , just like here, Seniority is extremely important at UPS.

We did apparently hold the line on PBS and we did keep all our Pilots (even future ones) under 1 retirement system. We did not create a B-scale retirement system.

It is rumored that we doubled New Hire Pay and vastly increased 1st year Pay in our FDA's.

So to sum up, Based on the rumors I am not blowing the Trumpets of Victory. It is far from being ratified, but please refrain from blaming us for your short comings.

md11phlyer

UPS has 8 week bid periods as standard with an occasional 4 or 5 week to balance the year.

flyphisher

Vacation policy: they can as we say, "backfill", you on trips you dropped due to vacation. As UPS gets better and better at their, "optimization" button, they're better and better at putting trips on dropped trips. Used to be they didn't do it. Drop a 2 week pacrim trip because it touches a vacation, they wouldn't bother you. But....they had the option to. They're just getting better at it. Now, you drop a 2 week pacrim trip, you will probably be working 7 of those days. Obviously having the option is the sore spot of our contract. But we fought like heck. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

Deviation bank: Don't know exactly what that means. We have a Travel Bank where if you book an airline ticket for less on a scheduled commercial deadhead, you get to bank the difference for use on a later commercial deadhead if your ticket now costs more. The problem is you can only use it for about 2 months. Then it expires. Not sure the exact timeframe but is something like that. Another win for UPS. But....we had to fight like heck to get what we got with any Travel Bank. It wasn't given to us. We had to use negotiating capital to get that.


Deadhead Class of Service: Business for the most part. There are times when first is allowed (over approximately 15:35 duty day). Domestic is business or first, if there is no business class, when its over 4 hours or so. Again, can't remember exactly. But you get the idea. It's not automatic business. And we had to fight for what we have. It wasn't given to us.

NURPS: For those on the, "outside", 99.99% have no idea what they are talking about. There was a pointed post concerning this about a year ago on this forum. This is a very serious matter for UPS and the IPA. And its not a simple case of hold your breath and stamp your feet until you get your way. The NURP program has been setup since the inception of UPS as an airline. We fight like heck each contract to eliminate the system. Most have no idea how deep this goes in UPS culture. And UPS knows exactly what they are doing. And how divisive it is. UPS knows what they are doing and feet stomping will change nothing. There is no, "allowing", the NURP system to exist. It exists because UPS says it does. Hopefully ATL will see the folly of spending millions to keep this system going. But when it comes to fighting with their labor, UPS will do some incredibly arrogant things regardless of cost.

Hiring projections: None

Seniority Advancement: Retirement only as far as we know. UPS is extremely secretive on their business model. Nobody knows. Anything.

Hotels in Lieu of DH: Not sure what that means. We get a hotel in lieu of sitting at the airport if the layover is greater than 2 hours. Unless, the gateway with greater than 2 hours has, "adequate rest facilities". Score another one for UPS. A smelly barcalounger might be considered an adequate rest facility by UPS standards.

I hope I at least approximated answering your questions. You stated you were not knowledgeable on these things so hopefully it clarifies it somewhat.

The reason people leave UPS for FedEx in years past to get away from the combative culture of UPS. I completely get that. It's not for everyone. But does foster a highly unified union. Which at the IPA we are very proud of. You have to be part of it to know how deep our unity goes. And you also have to be a UPS employee to know how deep their, "thing", goes.

So everything comes with a cost.

Hopefully FedEx will continue to treat you as they did in the past decades going forward. If they did, I would continue to recommend new hires going to FedEx over UPS based on corporate culture. Hopefully those days are not in your rearview mirror. Hopefully Fred will continue to treat FedEx pilots as well as he did for decades without every little thing being hard fought. Even the hangers in the airplane to hang our uniform coats on was an issue at some point. I hope you see just how nuts/combative can be.

Overall the contracts are about the same. Cherrypicking does little.

I wish we at UPS were able to sign first and believe our pilot group feels that way. That's only to say that UPS will use any and all tools, as any airline would, at the negotiating table. Other contracts, however separate, do play into negotiations.

Best of Luck to All of Us Moving Forward.

Purpletailed10

That was a very informative response, I appreciate you taking the time to answer the questions and yes you did a good job of answering them.

One question on your DH class of service. If the company schedules your DH and its greater than 4 hrs block domestic, you get business or first if business isn't available? Is there any provision for them to schedule coach if neither business or first is available?
Also how often is a DH scheduled on company jets vs pax airlines?

Thanks again.

skeebo2

Questions to you all My Jethro Bodine Navy Mind cant understand these below.

Company SLB of up to $110,000 at retirement. Applies to all pilots. ch 28 retirement what is SLB?

What is the signing bonus #