Why I am voting Yes
09-26-2015, 06:43 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Cowbell
We have been here about the same amount of time. Like you I haven't flown extra, supported negotiations any way possible, and taken big hit financial over the last couple of years as others have take draft trips I turned down. I am voting yes because I think this TA is pretty good in a lot of areas and will not get any better by waiting two years for 2.0. I think voting yes is best for me and best for the group. It is possible Albie feels the same way. If everyone makes the decision on whether to support this TA because it is better or worse for them short term and long term then by definition the vote will tell us what the majority believes is in the collective best interest of the Union. I can live with that.
We have been here about the same amount of time. Like you I haven't flown extra, supported negotiations any way possible, and taken big hit financial over the last couple of years as others have take draft trips I turned down. I am voting yes because I think this TA is pretty good in a lot of areas and will not get any better by waiting two years for 2.0. I think voting yes is best for me and best for the group. It is possible Albie feels the same way. If everyone makes the decision on whether to support this TA because it is better or worse for them short term and long term then by definition the vote will tell us what the majority believes is in the collective best interest of the Union. I can live with that.
09-26-2015, 06:58 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,047
Originally Posted by Cowbell
...The sentence that opened my eyes was toward the bottom, “I think I will make more money, both long and short term, if we secure gains and move on…”...
I guess we will know when the voting closes. But don't despair yet.
Until then, "more cowbell!!!". Great avatar.
09-26-2015, 07:21 PM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,186
Originally Posted by PolicyWonk
Rock, Rock
You need to wind the clock.
Caution. I think this is poor form on your part. And poor CRM.
Look at your words here. Ponder whether you'd say this to your captain, or, when you upgrade, to your FO?
"You may be able to convince yourself that you are voting for a greater cause. I am simply telling you that you probably aren't bright enough to vote on behalf of anyone but yourself. So please do that."
To the best of my knowledge, I don't know who you are talking to. But it is snarky.
You may have occasion to call me to task for similar remarks in the future, like right now, but you diminish your cause. At least under this pseudonym that you are using. I haven't heard a pilot say this sort of thing on the line. Where did you work before you got hired here?
I'm left with the impression from almost everything you've written that you aren't, in fact, a pilot. Almost everything you've written under this alias, at least. I think you have a few others also.
Are you a lawyer-by-day, attempting to persuade us, pilots-by-night?
We are gutsy, but not cavalier. But, you?
You need to wind the clock.
Caution. I think this is poor form on your part. And poor CRM.
Look at your words here. Ponder whether you'd say this to your captain, or, when you upgrade, to your FO?
"You may be able to convince yourself that you are voting for a greater cause. I am simply telling you that you probably aren't bright enough to vote on behalf of anyone but yourself. So please do that."
To the best of my knowledge, I don't know who you are talking to. But it is snarky.
You may have occasion to call me to task for similar remarks in the future, like right now, but you diminish your cause. At least under this pseudonym that you are using. I haven't heard a pilot say this sort of thing on the line. Where did you work before you got hired here?
I'm left with the impression from almost everything you've written that you aren't, in fact, a pilot. Almost everything you've written under this alias, at least. I think you have a few others also.
Are you a lawyer-by-day, attempting to persuade us, pilots-by-night?
We are gutsy, but not cavalier. But, you?
09-26-2015, 07:26 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,186
Originally Posted by Cowbell
But I’m a NO vote because I don’t think this contract does justice to our group as a whole. .
09-26-2015, 07:29 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Originally Posted by PolicyWonk
Rock, Rock
You need to wind the clock.
Caution. I think this is poor form on your part. And poor CRM.
Look at your words here. Ponder whether you'd say this to your captain, or, when you upgrade, to your FO?
"You may be able to convince yourself that you are voting for a greater cause. I am simply telling you that you probably aren't bright enough to vote on behalf of anyone but yourself. So please do that."
To the best of my knowledge, I don't know who you are talking to. But it is snarky.
You may have occasion to call me to task for similar remarks in the future, like right now, but you diminish your cause. At least under this pseudonym that you are using. I haven't heard a pilot say this sort of thing on the line. Where did you work before you got hired here?
I'm left with the impression from almost everything you've written that you aren't, in fact, a pilot. Almost everything you've written under this alias, at least. I think you have a few others also.
Are you a lawyer-by-day, attempting to persuade us, pilots-by-night?
We are gutsy, but not cavalier. But, you?
You need to wind the clock.
Caution. I think this is poor form on your part. And poor CRM.
Look at your words here. Ponder whether you'd say this to your captain, or, when you upgrade, to your FO?
"You may be able to convince yourself that you are voting for a greater cause. I am simply telling you that you probably aren't bright enough to vote on behalf of anyone but yourself. So please do that."
To the best of my knowledge, I don't know who you are talking to. But it is snarky.
You may have occasion to call me to task for similar remarks in the future, like right now, but you diminish your cause. At least under this pseudonym that you are using. I haven't heard a pilot say this sort of thing on the line. Where did you work before you got hired here?
I'm left with the impression from almost everything you've written that you aren't, in fact, a pilot. Almost everything you've written under this alias, at least. I think you have a few others also.
Are you a lawyer-by-day, attempting to persuade us, pilots-by-night?
We are gutsy, but not cavalier. But, you?
If you have actually read any more posts than you have made, you would notice that Rock is one of more fair minded, reasonable posters, whether one agrees with his position or not. But at some point, when attacked enough, anyone can get angry and defensive.
If you are trying to prevent people from being rude and snarky, I commend you. However, you need to keep reading, because you have a long ways to go. There are many comments on this forum that are far more offensive. However, perhaps you are just calling out someone that has a different opinion on the TA than you?
09-26-2015, 07:58 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,223
Originally Posted by Cowbell
During my 15 years here at FedEx I was of the opinion that belonging to the union meant “one for all and all for one” – you know, like a union. It was a collective effort by all members to improve the quality of life for the group as a whole. After reading Albie’s dissertation on why he’s voting “Yes” on the TA I realize I was wrong. The sentence that opened my eyes was toward the bottom, “I think I will make more money, both long and short term, if we secure gains and move on…” Okay got it. I shouldn’t vote on whether I think this TA benefits the overall pilot group, but just me.
It's all whose ox is getting gored, now. Funny thing is, several of the ones that signed that document are the ones telling us to vote "no" now......
09-26-2015, 08:03 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Cowbell, I think that you mistake someone's personal analysis of this TA as selfishness, and it's not. Everyone is analyzing this (no doubt, including you) as to how it will affect them, because it is something they can understand, and something they can quantify. By explaining how it affects them, it is giving an example, information to others who might be in the same situation. Albie has been asked a number of times to give his opinion.
For me personally, what matters is QOL. If this drags out another year, it costs me $30K in raises, two years, it costs me $69K. Would that ever be made up? It is a balance of whether my distrust of what how the company will interpret this TA outweighs the price of waiting, and if I think the issues I'm concerned about would even be fixed by continuing to negotiate. Add in the assessment that the union will have to add for negotiating further, since apparently we're out of $$, and you're talking some serious bucks, and I don't think weighing if it is worth it to wait is selfish at all. People are doing their own analysis, and their own critical thinking.
I appreciate people's honesty, and don't think daggers should be thrown at them for that.
For me personally, what matters is QOL. If this drags out another year, it costs me $30K in raises, two years, it costs me $69K. Would that ever be made up? It is a balance of whether my distrust of what how the company will interpret this TA outweighs the price of waiting, and if I think the issues I'm concerned about would even be fixed by continuing to negotiate. Add in the assessment that the union will have to add for negotiating further, since apparently we're out of $$, and you're talking some serious bucks, and I don't think weighing if it is worth it to wait is selfish at all. People are doing their own analysis, and their own critical thinking.
I appreciate people's honesty, and don't think daggers should be thrown at them for that.
09-26-2015, 10:14 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 110
I've been interested in how often Rock and Busdriver12 tagteam and seem to be awake at the same times.
In this case, three minutes apart.
And I perceive other nom de plumes also.
And some of the other hokey stories from various and sundry.
In this case, three minutes apart.
And I perceive other nom de plumes also.
And some of the other hokey stories from various and sundry.
09-26-2015, 10:33 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,186
Originally Posted by PolicyWonk
I've been interested in how often Rock and Busdriver12 tagteam and seem to be awake at the same times.
In this case, three minutes apart.
And I perceive other nom de plumes also.
And some of the other hokey stories from various and sundry.
In this case, three minutes apart.
And I perceive other nom de plumes also.
And some of the other hokey stories from various and sundry.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
