The Walrus

So what's your idea lag?

FDXLAG

Listen to the R&I guys now that they have seen the books.

The Walrus

So whatever they say, you're good.

RedeyeAV8r

Terms like B-Scale and Scab are often thrown around, incorrectly or inappropriately.


Quite often, pilot who might choose to fly extra or Sell back Vacation or not be a Team Player are Labeled a SCAB.
We all know, or should know, that a "Scab" is a person who willfully crossed a picket line to perform Struck work, period.

A B-Scale is when Pay and benefits are negotiated differently where two persons performing the same work are covered under different terms. Most often this is done for Pilots not yet hired, so it doesn't affect the current group.

We should all remember who started the B-Scale in the Airline Industry. Is was American Airlines.

New hire FO's were making almost Half of what Previous new hire FO's Made. The rest of the Industry followed suit. I am not picking on American Airline Pilots.

So, even though I will agree with you that if Not improved, in 5, 10 or 20 years, our A-plan will not be worth was it was in 2006 or even today, it is the same benefit for ALL on property. Sorry, I am with you that I wish we improved it, it is NOT a B-Scale.

Viper446

If we can't make any changes to the A plan, and this TA gets voted in, then we are doing a disservice to the new hires. A new hire now with the same A plan in 25yrs is going to have what, a half or third of the purchasing power of the A plan value today? I don't think any new hire is going to be upset if they get a better B plan with potentially more value than a deflated A plan. This isn't separating the crew force when there is a reasonable explanation why there would be a different retirement option for new hires. This is not like B scale pay rates were there was a definite penalty for being junior.

RedeyeAV8r

First off we can make changes to our A-plan. We have done it twice before. A-Plans are expensive, however, make no mistake.

Per the above quote, we'd be doing a disservice to ALL pilots, especially the ones who have been here for 15 -20 years fighting to get our first and second contracts. The contracts that made FedEx a top choice of many wannabes.

Once you split pilots into separate groups covered differently, you have just split the group. Management will have a Hayday as they will already have a Built in Wedge during future Contract negotiations.

Viper446

Nope.......

FDXLAG

Nope, you asked for my plan. I plan on listening to them and going along with whatever the majority decides.


Can't quibble with a thing you said. But I said it sounded like a B Scale in order to impress on the outsider the issue. He said some of us were essentially calling for a B Scale Retirement. A different retirement plan does not necessarily mean a B Scale retirement plan.

Raptor

I like how that's phrased.

If I were 40 and starting today, knowing the A plan is likely a dinosaur as the current TA implies, I would be inclined to prefer a strong B plan. Some have asked what the numbers should be. I don't know, there are too many variables for me. But the actuaries could figure it out at ALPA.

We've heard informed speculation say you need 2.1 to 2.8 million to get an annuity to replace our A fund. But annuities are tremendously affected by the rate assumed which could be changing favorably in the next couple of years. I would assume we base it on a 25 year "standard" career, and you would have to look at assumed inflation rates, assumed pay rates based on typical seat progression, and other variables to come up with a net present value to shoot for. Then we have to take a look at IRS limits and see if they're hit. Waaaay too complicated for me to give a number.

But, I like your phrasing that changing the retirement for new hires could be of equal and more secure value to them. If the TA passes, it's a moot point. If it doesn't, this is the major area we should talk about and be polled.

PeterGriffin

I still think it's foolhardy to talk about getting rid of the A plan. What happens if we lose the postal contract and it's 20 years to upgrade, what if someone wants to stay in the right seat for a career for qol? Our A plan is based on 260k a year, can you have a better B plan based on that income? Keep them both, if this TA passes, let management know on day one we are coming for an A plan increase in the next contract...too many defeatists out there claiming A plan is dead, I sure hope none of you negotiate the next deal.