pinseeker

Yes!!!!!!!!!!

FDXLAG

IMHO it is a better deal then we have now, and probably as good as we will get in 2 years. We have too many independent contractors to put much pressure on management to get more. I think the odds of fixing retirement outside of section 6 is better than inside.

golfandfly

Nice evasive answer. Is it a good deal?

Overnitefr8

What incentive does the company have to do a retirement fix outside of Section 6? They did side letters for the FDA LOAs because they needed pilots to go there. They don't need pilots to retire. They want us to work until we die.

FDXLAG

Again if I wait for Fred to pay me what i think I am worth Ill be older than Foxhunter and demanding the FAA raise the age to 83. Life is full of compromises. It is a better deal than we have now. I wish you guys would have made me MEC Vice Chair and Negotiating Commitee Chair, we would have gotten a great deal. It fixes a lot of issues I wanted fixed in 2011, when we should have voted no.

FDXLAG

Each new hire they hire costs them a bundle up front into the retirement fund. Inside of Section 6 we will have to pay for the change with some other savings. I think it should be a stand alone deal. 2000 new hires over the next 10 years.

Raptor

I worry about how a retirement LOA would be structured. The company goal is to cut costs. If, in an LOA, they froze the A plan and made the B plan 20% with cash over cap going in a Roth 401(k), it could pass as an LOA.

The 15-20% of the pilots who are within 3-5 years of retirement or who already have 25 years in would likely vote for it as they now get more money than before because of the B plan bump and they can't lose anything they have earned because of ERISA. The lower 50% of folks on the seniority list who are under age 50 may vote for it as they see the decreasing value of the capped A fund by their retirement. That leaves the remaining 30% worse off as they see the company target the LOA for a 51% approval (just like this TA).

But, if that same deal were in the TA, I don't think it would fly. There are enough no voters at the upper and lower limit voting no for other reasons that would combine with the 30% absolute no voters that it would go down.

I can see this scenario and others where a retirement deal in the TA would fail, but pass as a standalone LOA.

Retirement is delayed compensation. Would you vote for zero pay increase and hope for an LOA to solve that "contentious issue"?

SQUIRREL!!!!!

It's a very dangerous path to think or hope or base a TA vote on a potential retirement LOA.

As this TA stands a real chance of being voted down, if I were the company I would put out a couple more side letters (like they did saying they wouldn't be the first to institute a 6 week bid period). I would also float rumors of us not getting the TNT flying if we voted it down, float rumors of pay being even less because IP volume is softening, and I would float rumors of a retirement working group or even side letter a real retirement working group. (What does the company have to lose?). When/if you see these things you know the NO side may be right or else the company wouldn't be assisting trying to get it passed.

Rock

Raptor, it is just past 1100 on a Friday in Memphis. Voting starts this Monday. I believe most people have made up their minds by now and will probably vote as soon as they can. So if you are correct regarding the company wanting this TA to pass, I suspect we'll see a flurry of side letters in the next 4-5 hours. If we don't see those letters, then maybe the company is standing on the same position it has held for the last four years....they win as long as the contract doesn't change.

Raptor

Remember you can change your vote! How many times were we told that during the FDA LOAs?!

Side letters and rumors don't have to come before voting starts. We've seen the STV changes and such while voting is taking place. They will happen if the company gets a sense it will not pass.

I've always wondered if anyone gets to see the vote as it's being taken. Not who voted which way, but just whether or not the union can see the trend while voting is underway. This question has been asked before over the years and never answered one way or another.

KnightFlyer

I think it is. Small incremental improvements / fixes, similar to previous TAs. No wow moments. Wanted Sect 28 to turn out different, but I see how we got there. Decision best for my family.