Final Post from a Silverback
10-18-2015, 08:05 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 62
Final Post from a Silverback
Final Post from a Silverback.
My perspective on this TA and upcoming vote may not be wanted or valued by many but here it is. I have been at this company for over 26 years after spending 2 years at Pan Am. I have seen the good and bad of a Union, of no Union, a company only Union and finally what we have today. Let me first get this straight to those who may doubt what we are or think that we are something different than those other unions- We are not different. The purpose of a union is to negotiate with a company to achieve the best contract possible. Notice I did not say the best contract envisioned. What we have today is a vote on whether this is the best contract possible given our present circumstances? I use the term "given our present circumstances" because if you are like me you went through many emotions as rumors and votes were tallied at the MEC level this past summer. I felt we had the best opportunity to achieve that contract I had envisioned. We were unified like never before with a terrible manning shortage and peak looming. I knew I was going to get that A plan bump and off I'd fly into the sunset of my career with the fix to my diminished A plan value. The Purple promise I was given when hired was to be fulfilled - "Fly with us for a full career and walk away with 1/2 of you highest earnings salary for life"
So what happened? The MEC determined that this was the best we could get considering all the present circumstances. I disagreed but now we are presented with a whole different scenario. That moment in time is done and now you and I must decide not whether this is the contract of our dreams but instead - Can we force the Company to re-engage us and negotiate in good faith? Unfortunately in my opinion I think that will be very difficult to achieve and the time spent achieving this goal will wash out any supposed gains. I have been wearing a lanyard that states "Contract Now" for years and now we want to tell the company "Okay maybe next year or later". Believe me the company will just love this new round of negotiations. Delay is their friend not ours.
The biggest obstacle to passage of this TA seems to be the diminishing value of our A plan. I can tell you I have had to reevaluate my thinking on this and I challenge everyone of you out their to do the same math. The contract of 98 and 2006 added a B plan to our entire retirement package. For those with less time to achieve the added value of the B plan the company added an increased multiplier to their A plan. Now with the TA of 2015 they did not-why? The answer is in the math. Your B plan is the inflation adjustment for the A plan. No matter how far away you are from retirement your B fund growing at a 4% rate of return will yield an annuity supplement for 20 years that combined with your capped A fund payout of 130k gives you 50% of an historical inflation adjusted final salary. That's right- I even adjusted into the future what my salary will be with this contract. If you are further from retirement than the length of this contract keep adjusting your salary based on historical inflation. I challenge some of you naysayers out their to do the math for the hypothetical new hire career. The results just might surprise you. Sorry I don't have the time nor the inclination to do it for that new hire for I am not voting on this TA for his/her benefit but for mine and all those currently on property now. Now in the interest of full disclosure here are my numbers.
A little over 3 years to my retirement date of Dec 2018. I will be age 61.5 and using 1,000 hours at $313.25/hr is $313,250. At a 4% return and $20,800/yr (8%) company contribution my ending B plan will be $402k. A 4% return on this money will yield an annual benefit of $29,136 for 20 years. 29k + 130k = 159k x 2 = $318k FAE
Using a 25 year payout = $311k FAE
Now for those of you who say the B fund is extra retirement income I can only say it has not been viewed as that on any of the past contracts. And for those out there who just want more I ask you to consider-Will Fedex show the rest of the 100k employees that we will strengthen the pilots A fund while we froze yours?
TOGA is a great slogan but it's not a strategy. I think I'm worth a million bucks a years but I am realistic in what I think I can demand. We are a union and make no mistake about what that means. We will have to demand and force this company to engage us again in negotiations. Are you ready to do that? Expectations don't make a contract. I am a proud YES voter-now flame away.
Mitch Davitte
My perspective on this TA and upcoming vote may not be wanted or valued by many but here it is. I have been at this company for over 26 years after spending 2 years at Pan Am. I have seen the good and bad of a Union, of no Union, a company only Union and finally what we have today. Let me first get this straight to those who may doubt what we are or think that we are something different than those other unions- We are not different. The purpose of a union is to negotiate with a company to achieve the best contract possible. Notice I did not say the best contract envisioned. What we have today is a vote on whether this is the best contract possible given our present circumstances? I use the term "given our present circumstances" because if you are like me you went through many emotions as rumors and votes were tallied at the MEC level this past summer. I felt we had the best opportunity to achieve that contract I had envisioned. We were unified like never before with a terrible manning shortage and peak looming. I knew I was going to get that A plan bump and off I'd fly into the sunset of my career with the fix to my diminished A plan value. The Purple promise I was given when hired was to be fulfilled - "Fly with us for a full career and walk away with 1/2 of you highest earnings salary for life"
So what happened? The MEC determined that this was the best we could get considering all the present circumstances. I disagreed but now we are presented with a whole different scenario. That moment in time is done and now you and I must decide not whether this is the contract of our dreams but instead - Can we force the Company to re-engage us and negotiate in good faith? Unfortunately in my opinion I think that will be very difficult to achieve and the time spent achieving this goal will wash out any supposed gains. I have been wearing a lanyard that states "Contract Now" for years and now we want to tell the company "Okay maybe next year or later". Believe me the company will just love this new round of negotiations. Delay is their friend not ours.
The biggest obstacle to passage of this TA seems to be the diminishing value of our A plan. I can tell you I have had to reevaluate my thinking on this and I challenge everyone of you out their to do the same math. The contract of 98 and 2006 added a B plan to our entire retirement package. For those with less time to achieve the added value of the B plan the company added an increased multiplier to their A plan. Now with the TA of 2015 they did not-why? The answer is in the math. Your B plan is the inflation adjustment for the A plan. No matter how far away you are from retirement your B fund growing at a 4% rate of return will yield an annuity supplement for 20 years that combined with your capped A fund payout of 130k gives you 50% of an historical inflation adjusted final salary. That's right- I even adjusted into the future what my salary will be with this contract. If you are further from retirement than the length of this contract keep adjusting your salary based on historical inflation. I challenge some of you naysayers out their to do the math for the hypothetical new hire career. The results just might surprise you. Sorry I don't have the time nor the inclination to do it for that new hire for I am not voting on this TA for his/her benefit but for mine and all those currently on property now. Now in the interest of full disclosure here are my numbers.
A little over 3 years to my retirement date of Dec 2018. I will be age 61.5 and using 1,000 hours at $313.25/hr is $313,250. At a 4% return and $20,800/yr (8%) company contribution my ending B plan will be $402k. A 4% return on this money will yield an annual benefit of $29,136 for 20 years. 29k + 130k = 159k x 2 = $318k FAE
Using a 25 year payout = $311k FAE
Now for those of you who say the B fund is extra retirement income I can only say it has not been viewed as that on any of the past contracts. And for those out there who just want more I ask you to consider-Will Fedex show the rest of the 100k employees that we will strengthen the pilots A fund while we froze yours?
TOGA is a great slogan but it's not a strategy. I think I'm worth a million bucks a years but I am realistic in what I think I can demand. We are a union and make no mistake about what that means. We will have to demand and force this company to engage us again in negotiations. Are you ready to do that? Expectations don't make a contract. I am a proud YES voter-now flame away.
Mitch Davitte
10-18-2015, 08:28 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777
Posts: 564
You forgot the detrimental effects of having no "cash over [federal contribution] cap" language. For a WB Capt, that difference can make your B-plan 9% effectively only 7+% in the out years. Under this TA, the company keeps everything (no $$ to you) after you reach the cap.
10-18-2015, 08:51 AM
#3
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: MD-11, old man
Posts: 2,198
My final post as a Silverback.
Mitch, enjoy your pending retirement. I'm happy you got "yours" out of this TA. Oh, by the way, I can help you pull the ladder up if you'd like. 
Robert Cecchi
Robert Cecchi
10-18-2015, 09:23 AM
#4
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by FlybyKnite
You forgot the detrimental effects of having no "cash over [federal contribution] cap" language. For a WB Capt, that difference can make your B-plan 9% effectively only 7+% in the out years. Under this TA, the company keeps everything (no $$ to you) after you reach the cap.
10-18-2015, 11:54 AM
#5
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 798
Originally Posted by mcdbirdman
Final Post from a Silverback.
Can we force the Company to re-engage us and negotiate in good faith? Unfortunately in my opinion I think that will be very difficult to achieve and the time spent achieving this goal will wash out any supposed gains.
Mitch Davitte
Can we force the Company to re-engage us and negotiate in good faith? Unfortunately in my opinion I think that will be very difficult to achieve and the time spent achieving this goal will wash out any supposed gains.
Mitch Davitte
Mitch-
For more than a few of us, this is the baseline for the next one, two, three, or four contracts. I think I'll take the time to make it right now.
Sorry the timing isn't to your convenience, but this is a living document. There was never a timeline coordinated with any one person's retirement date.
Pipe
10-18-2015, 01:19 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Ah well, Mitch. Thanks for explaining the numbers that you figured. I'm sure that you knew people would jump on you for that.
It is curious to me, even as a no voter, that people can call others selfish and talk about "pulling up the ladders", not caring about others besides themselves----while asking those same people nearing retirement to potentially give up hundreds of thousands of dollars in raises, bonuses, SLB and retirement notification cash, to take what could be a significant delay in hopes of getting a better contract. Hey, I'm fine with YOU taking a huge financial hit if it might get ME a better deal, but if you're figuring out the numbers for yourself, you're selfish. Ironic, isn't it?
The most generous thing one can do is retire early---and if you really end up retiring at 61.5 years old, thank you, and I hope you enjoy it!
It is curious to me, even as a no voter, that people can call others selfish and talk about "pulling up the ladders", not caring about others besides themselves----while asking those same people nearing retirement to potentially give up hundreds of thousands of dollars in raises, bonuses, SLB and retirement notification cash, to take what could be a significant delay in hopes of getting a better contract. Hey, I'm fine with YOU taking a huge financial hit if it might get ME a better deal, but if you're figuring out the numbers for yourself, you're selfish. Ironic, isn't it?
The most generous thing one can do is retire early---and if you really end up retiring at 61.5 years old, thank you, and I hope you enjoy it!
10-18-2015, 05:33 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,195
Originally Posted by busdriver12
Thanks, Rock. However, according to Policywonk, you, me and 55 other people on here are all the same person, so really you're just complimenting yourself. And that's a little narcissistic, isn't it?
Now if someone could just vote for me so I could pay even more for free healthcare and college, I would be eternally grateful. I love it when people who have failed personal financing vote to use my money to cover for their failures.
Now if I could just find a soapbox to stand on, I could really go off. But then someone would probably come on and tell me I've used up all my internet time.
Have I mentioned taking a break from APC has been really healthy?
10-18-2015, 06:02 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
A break from APC would be a good idea. How about after the vote closes?
Tell you what, Rock, since our votes will cancel each other out (and we are obviously split personality), how about you change your vote to no, and I PROMISE I'll change my vote to yes. Deal?
Tell you what, Rock, since our votes will cancel each other out (and we are obviously split personality), how about you change your vote to no, and I PROMISE I'll change my vote to yes. Deal?
