Flying Clubs
03-01-2007 | 07:27 PM
#1
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Blue Light Special
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From: Learjet 45 & G-IV
Flying Clubs
ok guys here is the deal... there is this fractional ownership i can get involved with to buy one 15th of a beechcraft sundowner (c-23)... it's $2857 upfront for my share + $15/hour dry, $34/month for dues, and $270/year for insurance... i did the math, and saying that I could sell my share for as much I buy it for, my plane rental for getting my private would cost me about $1600... is it worth it? or should I just buck up and spend $60/hour straight up for a 152?
the name of the flying club is "R&R Pilots, Inc." at the downtown airport in kansas city...
the name of the flying club is "R&R Pilots, Inc." at the downtown airport in kansas city...
Last edited by mcartier713; 03-01-2007 at 08:52 PM.
03-02-2007 | 12:22 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
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From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Add fuel to the dry rates, and you're gonna be over the 152 rental costs. On the other hand, a Sundowner is waaaay more airplane than a 152, and there is value in that. You need to decide if it's worth it.
03-02-2007 | 12:46 PM
#3
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Blue Light Special
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From: Learjet 45 & G-IV
i did add fuel to the rates... the $1600 is fuel and insurance and everything included... figuring in 3 months time. (also figuring i sell my share for what i buy it for)
and is that a good thing or a bad thing? would learning in a sundowner be a lot more beneficial than in a 152?
and is that a good thing or a bad thing? would learning in a sundowner be a lot more beneficial than in a 152?
03-02-2007 | 01:52 PM
#4
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From: Drinking minis in a Hilton
I was 1/8 owner of a C-182 for 2 years, we recently sold the plane to one of the owners. I did the same math you did and for me it was worth the share. Obviously the hourly charge will be less, and thus beneficial, however, the final answer will be when you go to sell your share. How quickly have they sold in the past? Has the price appreciated? The other Q you need to answer before you buy is about the other 14 owners. Are they normal folks, who manages the schedule/maintenance, has there been conflicts in the past. Of course, if you can't sell your share for a while you still get to fly a plane on the cheap.
03-02-2007 | 02:07 PM
#5
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From: FO, looking left
$15/hour dry, $34/month for dues, and $270/year for insurance... i did the math, and saying that I could sell my share for as much I buy it for, my plane rental for getting my private would cost me about $1600... is it worth it? or should I just buck up and spend $60/hour straight up for a 152?
- Let's assume you can sell your share for what you bought it for
- Let's assume it takes you 50 hours to get your private. National average is 60-70.
- Let's assume it only takes you 3 months to get your private. It also usually takes closer to 6 months. But if you fly about 4 times a week, and you fly in a good weather area during the spring and fall, I would say 3 months is do able.
- Let's assume avgas is $3.50 a gallon. I pay about $4.00 a gallon, so $3.50 is certainly on the lower end of the spectrum. Assume 9 gallons an hour. Could be slightly more.
- Lets assume the $270/yr of insurance can get prorated for 3 months.
To rent the Cessna 152, it would be 50 hours X 60/hr = $3000.
To rent your aircraft for 3 months and 50 hours:
- $102 in monthly dues
- $68 in insurance
- $750 in dry aircraft rental
- $1575 in fuel
Total comes to $2500. And trust me, that is an optimistic estimate.
EXPECT TO PAY MORE!
Fortunately, for every hour you go over, it is slightly less than the Cessna-152.
Personally, I would suggest buying into this flying club assuming you can leave when you are done with your private. The cost is less, and the C-23 is much more of an airplane than a Cessna-152. So it will be a better experience to fly.
03-02-2007 | 02:11 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
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From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
40 hours x 10 gph x $4/gal gas is $1600 right there. Finding avgas at less the $4/gas can be hard in some parts of the country.
The Sundowner will perform better and is more comfortable than a 152. Would it be more "beneficial"? I don't see why.
The Sundowner will perform better and is more comfortable than a 152. Would it be more "beneficial"? I don't see why.
03-02-2007 | 06:07 PM
#7
Careful w/that axe Eugene
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: HOTAS...and a SWA gear lever
Almost joined a flying club....
Other questions:
Does 1/15th mean there are 14 other owners with whom you must deconfict usage?
What is typical availability?
Do they have an on-line scheduling tool (or other records) you can look at?
How quickly have people been able to sell their shares in the past?
Do they have club meetings and would they let you attend?
The last one (attending a meeting) was the key ingredient for me deciding against my particular club option. I was fortunate to witness them airing some of their "dirty laundry" and chose not to join based on such.
Does 1/15th mean there are 14 other owners with whom you must deconfict usage?
What is typical availability?
Do they have an on-line scheduling tool (or other records) you can look at?
How quickly have people been able to sell their shares in the past?
Do they have club meetings and would they let you attend?
The last one (attending a meeting) was the key ingredient for me deciding against my particular club option. I was fortunate to witness them airing some of their "dirty laundry" and chose not to join based on such.
03-03-2007 | 06:53 PM
#8
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Blue Light Special
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From: Learjet 45 & G-IV
doh thats where my calculations were wrong.. i'm retarded.. i was figuring $10/hour for gas instead of 10gph... that makes sense... but even so, i think it still works out better to buy in.
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