Bg08

Hello all aviators. This is my first post in this for Forum. I am 27yr old an recently(September 2017) started pursuing my dream.( pilot) I am currently at a “mom&pop” FBO. Attempting to obtain my PPL. I do intend on making a career out of this. As this is the first step to my future career I have questions. Main question being how should I go about finishing my training. I’ve scoured the Internet for answers and they are all up and down about what is the best solution after my PPL. I do understand what is best for someone else may not be best for me. I’ve heard ATP is a great fast route yet the closest one is 2hrs away from my home/family. I also have heard they are a pilot mill an who doesn’t truly hate being seen as a number. I’ve been told go get a degree( associates) from the local CC that has ties to my current FBO. I’ve also been told just stick where I am an complete all necessary rating. My current school is part 141 certified if I’m saying that correctly. So I could possibly get some form of financial aid. I’m not stressing yet but the future is fast approaching an I would hate to misstep an use hindsight if you know what I mean. Thanks in advance.

Tippy

I attended and then taught at a 141 CC program and think very highly of that route, not that others aren't a good option also. For someone in your position right now i would say continue at the FBO if it is a 141 and ties to the college providing it does offer you some form of degree or credits because yes you will want the 4 year degree!! And do the best to stay out of debt, even if that means it takes you a little longer to finish. I would personally avoid the "pilot mills" like ATP and AF.
The best way to finish faster at a self paced program is STUDY!! dont expect the CFI to spoon feed you everything. Study what you are going to do before you do it, then the instructor can fill in the blanks, and then go practice it. It will take hard work and a lot of money but you get out of it what you put into it!
good luck

Bg08

Is a degree a necessity? I’ve again heard many different opinions.(about the shortage world wide) If I don’t need it I won’t get it.

rickair7777

You're getting old for military, if you think you want to do that, better start doing research today, and be talking to guard/reserve units by Jan. You'll need a degree for that.

Practically speaking, if you don't already have a degree may as well do an aviation college to get the R-ATP and an associates. You can then either finish the bachelors, or go to a regional and finish the BS while working... that last will require discipline because career progression should move quickly and you don't want to find yourself competitive for a major with no degree.

If you have a degree, a good structured part 61 program is probably the best bet. Cheaper and offers flexibility to adjust the training to your needs. In 141, you have to stick the syllabus, even if you're ready to move on.

Be aware that a 141 school can, and often will, offer part 61 training as well (unless it's part of a university program). But 141 schools tend to have higher hourly rates, simply because the government will pay those rates for GI Bill students... usually takes longer and costs more.

I've trained and worked at both 61 and 141, and I would recommend 141 only for veterans with GI Bill, or those doing a degree program.

rickair7777

Yes. That might change, but the problem is that the current major trend is to hire fresh young regional CA's (and even FO's). If they don't drop the degree requirement fast enough, you might get passed over, and once you're a bitter old has-been regional CA it will be hard to get called, even with a degree.

Basically not getting the degree would be a risk, and would at least delay your career progression by 3-5 years, best guess, and that's only if things are going well in the industry.

aiir

When you say that the current hiring trend is to hire fresh young regional CA’s and even FO’s at the majors. Is that with relation to lower hours equals more trainable or do you literally mean “young” as in age, like mid twenties.

Would someone 30-32 years old with a masters degree, a clean record, a good attitude, with some volunteer time, and other extracurriculars be likely to get hired at a major as a regional FO?

Bucknut

The best advice I could give is become intimately familiar with the practical test standards for the rating or certificate you are trying to aquire. Find an instructor that understands this and you will have probably found a good instructor. This is probably one of the most overlooked training requirements in aviation. PT 61 and 141 each have their advantages. I liked Pt61 training due to intructors usually had different perspectives rather than the instructors at 141 programs that train at the school and turn around and instruct at the same place which can lead to tunnel vision in regards to training.

rickair7777

Maybe. It's more about career "youth" than chronological youth, although when I was pursuing legacies a good buddy with very deep insight told me that my age would be a factor. You're starting about when I did but you'll be younger than me when the time comes, because you probably won't get a decade-long career "time out" at the regional.

I suspect some of it is just human nature, ie they look at you and you're just not as "sexy" as a younger person. You can mitigate that by being fit, well-dressed, well-groomed, and dynamic.

Some of it may be more overt, the requirement to do volunteer work and chase recruiters all over the country to various job fairs... I suspect this may have been intended to select for young/single/childless people, real grownups with families just don't have time to play those games. Between family and my other job, I did zero job fairs (but I was fortunate to have some unusual resume bullets). I suspect as hiring ramps up, this sort of thing will fall by the wayside, ie a job fair might get you called quicker but I doubt it will be a de-facto requirement for too much longer.

There's also the legit concern of training success, older folks don't learn as well (especially if they've been stagnant for many years), and they are more likely to not have any recent training events. This should be less of an issue for you, since things should move right along from here on out, but it's something to keep in the back of your mind... if you go to a regional with only one A/C type, and get delayed for a few years, you'll be stale. A regional with more than one type would afford the opportunity to reset the training clock if needed. The ERJ's arrival at SKW a few years ago was a career godsend to many "stale" CRJ CA's.

Another concern they have is that of older folks (especially CA's) being too set in their ways, there has been some friction with new hires recently for that reason. You can mitigate this at the interview, by how you present yourself and answer questions. Probably won't be an issue for you, since you probably won't stagnate.

Of course you should consider the AA wholly owned regionals (flow), and then other regionals with preferential interviews to bypass this whole issue.

kevbo

27 without a degree is too old to start. Your whole career will be in the shadow of younger people without ever seeing top pay or a good schedule.