Hflyr51

Pilots,

Huge post!

I'm currently active duty Army, about to transition out within 5 months. I hold a PPL ASEL certificate with 110hrs, 33 years old with a wife and two kids. I'm able to maintain a Class 1 medical rather easily. I'm trying to decide how I want to continue my flight training. I'm going to post my two scenarios based on my ultimate goal as to fly commercial whether that's corporate or Airlines. Preferably airlines.

1st Scenario:

The local flight school I obtained my PPL with has extremely affordable rates for me to finish up to my CFII in comparison to a majority of schools around. Since I am Part 61 PPL, and I already have my 50hrs of PIC cross country there isn't much left needed to finish up my Instrument. Along with time building, the school quoted me less than 20K to finish up to my CFII. It cost me $7500 to obtain my PPL with the school at the FAA minimum 40hrs. All in a Cessna 172M/N.

So, with that training plan in mind, this still leaves out a couple very important factors that I have to consider.
1. I would have to pay for this with loans and or credit cards.
2. I would still have to get a BS degree for when I planned on transitioning to a major airline in the future.
3. The time it would take me through Part 61 to obtain all my ratings is far quicker than any Part 141 College degree program. By my calculations, it would take me roughly 2-2.5 years from the time I started training an became a CFI to the 1500 ATP requirement.

Sure, this would likely get me to a regional airline fairly quickly. Then at this point, I could utilize my GI Bill to obtain my Bachelor's degree. I spoke with a Delta Captain/Instructor Pilot, he said that from his experience it was very difficult for pilots to finish their degree in the time necessary to be eligible for a major airline.

I have seen in forums, and from other pilots recommending getting a degree outside of aviation to fall back on. With this scenario, this would be apart of the plan.

I am quite ok with getting loans to pay for my flight training if in fact, this is the best situation for my needs.

2nd Scenario:

Being a Veteran, I have my Post 9/11 GI bill. This would allow me to attend any Yellow Ribbon school. Which would pay for all of my flight training and degree. I'm very interested in hearing other Veterans experience with these programs. I like this idea because it would be paid for. However, from my 1st scenario above, I mentioned that many pilots recommend obtaining a non-aviation related degree. Thoughts?

Being that I already have my PPL would cut down on time needed to finish a degree path. However, then I would have a degree and not have to worry about that. Also, the 1000hrs R-ATP which instructing while finishing up my BS would only take another year to likely be at that restricted minimum.

I've been looking into a few different schools that have Yellow Ribbon flight programs IE.
Kansas State Polytechnic - Closest to me
University of North Dakota
Purdue Polytechnic
Ohio State
Spartan College - Tulsa

I'm open to other recommendations. I am immensely interested in people who have been there, done that experience to help me make a decision.

I also have to keep in mind my family's needs. My wife has a Bachelors in Psychology would need opportunities for her to find a job. Being that I am the current sole proprietor of income at the moment. My wife would have to start working again to help cover the change. I'm not as concerned about her finding a job with her degree and experience. It is just something to consider based on what location I deem is best to finish up my flight training.

If you've made it this far in this post. I sincerely appreciate your input and time taken to read my post. Your response will be greatly appreciated!

Dfwnightflyer

Haven’t heard great things about Spartan.

wmlocante

First, thank you for your service! Obviously, this is a decision that only you and your wife can make. However, I feel like you and I were once in very similar shoes so let me tell you how I did it.

After I retired from professional baseball last year, I jumped right into flight training at a Part 61 school. For me it was between them and ATP. I heard both great and horrible things about them so I was kind of on the fence to begin with. They promise 0 to CFI in about 9 months and in your case PPL to CFI in 6 months. I went from 0 time to CFI in 8 months with a month off for the birth of my first baby. So, to cover the flying portion of what I was looking for, I made that my full time job. Flying everyday, sometimes twice, and studying ALOT. I don't doubt you have the work ethic for that! Part 61 is WAY cheaper and the certificates look the same. As far as school goes, I was finishing my degree at Arizona State online while doing all of my flight training. I loved this because I could stay at home, it was an accelerated degree program, and i could continue to fly and study during the day and work on school at night. Personally, this just fit what I was looking for and it covered everything required. I got my flying done in a quick way and acquiring my degree at the same time. This was just better than picking up and moving my family somewhere to go to school.

I hope this helps even a little bit. Sometimes these forums can be ruthless...so feel free to PM me if you have anymore questions!

sourdough44

At 33 you need ‘the fast track’. That means more training and tracking towards at least an Associates degree. Depending on the program you should be able to get a handful of credits for prior military experience.

We all need a backup plan of sorts, which some naturally have due to work ethic or motivation. I wouldn’t get to tangled up with a time consuming degree that you hope to not use anyway.

Full timing with a young family can be difficult. I’d allow little dead time, no need to take Spring or Summer off, go year round. You need a CFI soon too, don’t take it until prepared though.

Hflyr51

Thanks for your input. By the way, I'm a huge baseball fan! A good chance I'm familiar with you and your professional career. Though, I'm a Rockies fan!

Anyhow, my biggest concern about Part 61 is the bigger financial burden from the start. I, as, a service member do not make a huge salary unless I deploy. This is how I paid for my PPL. However, those funds are diminished. So I'm between trying to find a way to finance the remainder of my flight training. Whether that's using my low APR credit cards I have, or I find a loan that will support what I want to do.

The beauty of being a service member and having the GI Bill, is they will pay me housing allowance. While I'm in school Most of the flight programs I've seen would take me from PPL to Bachelors within about 3 years. The fact that all of it is paid for is highly intriguing.

That all being said. I'm not sold on just going to a University and getting an Aviation degree. I have seen over and over airline pilots saying do not get the BS in aviation. Mainly because of furloughs, or airlines going bankrupt. Then having something to fall back on. However, having my complete flight training and degree paid for would open me up for completing another degree once I'm settled in an airline later on.

Thanks again!

Hflyr51

I agree 100% with your comment and thanks for the reply. From the schools I've talked to, everything has been about getting it done as fast as possible. This means I would be in school year-round and complete the flight program in 3 years, this is with K-State and even UND.

From looking at my service transcript, my training field is mostly technical so general ed classes would still have to be met. The biggest and most difficult deciding factor is. Having a degree completely paid for is highly intriguing! Even if this degree is only good for one thing, who's to say I couldn't do a double major later on.

That brings me back to my question in the OP. How hard is it to complete a degree while working as line staff in an airline. I'm very driven, but having a more logical way to do things might be a smarter move. This is why I'm here, and thanks for taking your time to discuss with me!

sourdough44

For the most part, getting or finishing up towards a degree isn’t easy when working full time. Then we can add family and kids into the mix. One may have a situation where it works, the next may find it close to impossible. No one size fits all.

Now just finishing up a few classes is doable. The type of degree would factor it, and the school in question.

I hesitate to say exactly what may work or may not, some are much better at getting things done than others. One may have a supportive spouse, the next has a spouse threatening to leave if certain ‘needs’ aren’t being met.

I have flown with some taking classes towards a degree. One has to adjust around it. I’d much rather ‘finish up’ doing it while working, than doing the bulk towards a degree.

November Seven

Not a pilot yet. However, just from a life perspective and from someone whose seen every economic downturn since Reagan was in office, never play your education short. If you have a degree goal in mind and care about your education, finish the degree, first. You will be so glad that you did.

Second. If using debt to financial your professional career is the only viable path, then you'll have to take that decision very seriously. If paying your way through the educational process (no matter whether College or Flight Training) is doable and more in-line with your values, then I'd serious consider that path and exhaust all possibilities along those lines.

I worked my way through a Bachelors, Masters and a PhD program. It was not easy. In fact, it was very hard at times. However, the rewards for having done so, are still flowing to this very day and that was many years ago. One of the biggest benefits was not having to service many years of debt in the next phase of life. I've never been a fan of Personal Debt. Principally, because it reduces your career flexibility in ways that you probably won't be able to appreciate until you need to be flexible (Marriage, Children, Lifestyle, etc.).

I can't offer advice or opinion on how to become a CFI. I'm going through the process of selecting one right now. However, on Education & Debt, I think self-financing your education whenever and wherever possible is probably going to be the right approach in the long-term. But, for you and your family or eventual family.


Any Degree Program that does not establish a multi-year personal debt profile and allows you to study the subject of your choice freely, has got to be a good thing both now and in the future.

It is a really good idea to think both about the present and the future. Good economies come and go. What's up today will be down tomorrow. Increasing job growth today reverses to decreasing job growth tomorrow. Strong hiring today, weak hiring tomorrow. Yet, your Personal Debt Profile will endure through all those economic swings.

There is nothing worse than living the life of a Debt Slave. Try to become Debt Free. This is first accomplished through the self-discipline of living within your means and learning how to manage and grow your own capital. In fact, this should be course material in High School. This will free you in the future, such that you are able to make strategic decisions about your Life and your Lifestyle, which is inclusive your Professional Career. That's the "flexibility" I mentioned above.

Everything in life is connected. Most don't understand just how connected everything truly is in this life and they make assumptions and strategic decisions in their life that demonstrate that on a daily basis. Money is connected to Career. Career is connected to Family. Family is connected to Life. And, Lifestyle is connected to Health (Mental and Physical).

The point is that you be Happy with whatever decision you make and that you do it with both the present and the future in mind.



You are thoughtful, forward looking, analytical and smart enough to ask the right questions. You will glean the good advice, toss the bad advice in the trash where it belongs, evaluate your options and come to the correct decision that works best for yourself and your Family.

I respect people that contemplate and evaluate their options. All the best in your decision making! You're going to do just fine.

Hflyr51

An excellent and thoughtful response! I truly appreciate your insight.

At the moment my considerations are to utilize my GI Bill and allow that to pay for my pilot career path. I feel that even if I do get an aviation degree to start off I would be fine. My theory behind being able to fly as a line staff in an airline would, in fact, be less concerning if I already had a degree. That being said, I also realize I could double major later on once I'm steady in an airline.

I feel that with such life-altering decisions I would be foolish to not discuss and contemplate my options.

Pilot Muscle

I'm a similar situation looking for advice between Kansas State Polytechnic, UCM, and Spartan Univeristy.