Handwriting Problem - Tremor In Left Hand
09-28-2018, 06:20 PM
#22
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,499
Originally Posted by TiredSoul
It’s called “rationalization”....look it up.
You suffer from it also.
How can you DENY you have a problem if you are teaching yourself to write with your other hand?
That’s pretty bizarre.
You suffer from it also.
How can you DENY you have a problem if you are teaching yourself to write with your other hand?
That’s pretty bizarre.
Last edited by Excargodog; 01-25-2019 at 10:06 AM.
09-29-2018, 08:01 AM
#23
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Originally Posted by jupiter87140
Those of you who believe that I should have indicated that I have a "neurological disorder" on the FAA medical questionnaire...well I think you have been flying too long with the autopilot. Your brain has atrophied with too much automation.
Do I have to spell it out to you autopilot/FMS addicts?
Ok, I will spell it out, since some births were more difficult than others.
I was NEVER diagnosed with a neurological disorder. The FAA medical asks if you have ever had such an issue. In order for you to answer "yes" to that question, you need to have been diagnosed with the disorder. I am not capable of self diagnosing a neurological disorder, since I am not a trained and board certified physician. Therefore, since I have not been diagnosed with such a condition, it was correct and logical to answer "no" to that issue on the medical questionnaire.
Was that enough spelling out for you geniuses? Or should I spell it out further?
Good Lord, please tell me that some of you who don't get that are not at a major airline. If you are, Lord Help us. You are probably not, as the MAJORS are generally pretty good at sifting out the less than highly intelligent.
Do I have to spell it out to you autopilot/FMS addicts?
Ok, I will spell it out, since some births were more difficult than others.
I was NEVER diagnosed with a neurological disorder. The FAA medical asks if you have ever had such an issue. In order for you to answer "yes" to that question, you need to have been diagnosed with the disorder. I am not capable of self diagnosing a neurological disorder, since I am not a trained and board certified physician. Therefore, since I have not been diagnosed with such a condition, it was correct and logical to answer "no" to that issue on the medical questionnaire.
Was that enough spelling out for you geniuses? Or should I spell it out further?
Good Lord, please tell me that some of you who don't get that are not at a major airline. If you are, Lord Help us. You are probably not, as the MAJORS are generally pretty good at sifting out the less than highly intelligent.
I suspect you're a millennial, and have an expectation that everything's fair and accommodating. Well, it's not in the real world and this one of those times.
Again the good news is that I don't think DOJ is going to prosecute over this. See the pilot health forum for a lengthy discussion and media links of ongoing, current federal prosecutions of pilots who didn't fill out their medical forms accurately. I suggest you check it out...
Nobody here is trying to argue with you, some very experienced (and successful and highly compensated) professionals have some time on their hands and are willing to share their insight with noobs. No need to get angry about it... as others have said, people who can't take constructive criticism don't get far in this business.
For absolute clarity... IF you go on record as having a neurological issue, glitch, or whatever you want to call it for ten years you are exposed to some degree for having not reported it. If it's not on the record, then it's just between you, yourself, and the fly on the wall.
09-29-2018, 10:21 AM
#24
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,499
Do I have to spell it out to you autopilot/FMS addicts?
Ok, I will spell it out, since some births were more difficult than others.
1. You HAVE been diagnosed as having a neurological disorder. Your personal physician could not have offered you a prescription medication that would have required FAA approval without having made such a diagnosis. And he/she undoubtedly entered the ICD-10 coding for that diagnosis into the electronic medical record and it is now there forever. EMR systems have multiple backups and can't afford to lose data, so even if you didn't use medical insurance (who woukd have also received that ICD-10 code) there is an indelible record that you HAVE been diagnosed.
2. It is not for your physician to make the decision if your tremor is aero medically significant, not medically, not legally, and not ethically.
3. It is not for YOU to make the decision. Not legally, not medically, not ethically.
4. You have admitted that this has already interfered with your flying, and you have barely gotten started. You haven't gotten to the point where you are a mile outside the outer marker and approach tells you the guy in front of you just went missed approach and the field has gone well below minimums and they are now changing the published missed approach and in the event you cannot land - which has become a near certainty - you now need to go to some distant intersection at some nonstandard altitude and hold on some arbitrary heading until they sort out what to do with the guy in front of you and the three guys on back of you. And you have to copy that down single Pilot IFR while continuing to at least fly the localizer and maintain altitude because you can't actually go missed approach before the missed approach point either. You are, in fact, simply INCOMPETENT to have a meaningful opinion of your ability to do that.
5. At this point even your AME might not be able to clear you for anything more than a student license because this HAS interfered with your flying career meaning that he/she ought to defer this decision to Oklahoma City. See AME guide directions below:
Tremors, if sufficient to interfere with the performance of airman duties 12 All Submit a current status report to include functional status (degree of impairment as measured by strength, range of motion, pain), medications with side effects and all pertinent medical reports
Requires FAA Decision
For all the above conditions: If the applicant is otherwise qualified, the FAA may issue a limited certificate. This certificate will permit the applicant to proceed with flight training until ready for a MFT. At that time, at the applicant's request, the FAA (usually the AMCD) will authorize the student pilot to take a MFT in conjunction with the regular flight test.
The MFT and regular private pilot flight test are conducted by an FAA inspector. This affords the student an opportunity to demonstrate the ability to control the aircraft despite the handicap. The FAA inspector prepares a written report and indicates whether there is a safety problem. If the airman successfully completes the MFT, a medical certificate and SODA will be sent to the airman from AMCD.
.....
So yes, you can try and hide this and berate the world for still using carbon smeared on wood pulp as a memory aid, but don't doubt for a moment that what you are doing is illegal. And documentation of that is just sitting there, out of your reach but definitely not out of reach of the FAA.
You may not get caught, you may be able to make your right hand work well enough to get by, but yes, you are concealing a material fact and what you are doing is illegal. More to the point, it's stupid. It's in your interest as well as the FAAs to do this the right way.
The sad fact is that the FAA almost certainly would waiver this and you might even be better off on medication and a waiver.
I can't speak for your AME, but if I were him/her I'd get a psych eval on you as well.
09-30-2018, 08:56 AM
#26
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by Excargodog
You know, subtlety is wasted on some people, and you seem to be one of those people. So here it is, NOT sugar coated:
1. You HAVE been diagnosed as having a neurological disorder. Your personal physician could not have offered you a prescription medication that would have required FAA approval without having made such a diagnosis. And he/she undoubtedly entered the ICD-10 coding for that diagnosis into the electronic medical record and it is now there forever. EMR systems have multiple backups and can't afford to lose data, so even if you didn't use medical insurance (who woukd have also received that ICD-10 code) there is an indelible record that you HAVE been diagnosed.
2. It is not for your physician to make the decision if your tremor is aero medically significant, not medically, not legally, and not ethically.
3. It is not for YOU to make the decision. Not legally, not medically, not ethically.
4. You have admitted that this has already interfered with your flying, and you have barely gotten started. You haven't gotten to the point where you are a mile outside the outer marker and approach tells you the guy in front of you just went missed approach and the field has gone well below minimums and they are now changing the published missed approach and in the event you cannot land - which has become a near certainty - you now need to go to some distant intersection at some nonstandard altitude and hold on some arbitrary heading until they sort out what to do with the guy in front of you and the three guys on back of you. And you have to copy that down single Pilot IFR while continuing to at least fly the localizer and maintain altitude because you can't actually go missed approach before the missed approach point either. You are, in fact, simply INCOMPETENT to have a meaningful opinion of your ability to do that.
5. At this point even your AME might not be able to clear you for anything more than a student license because this HAS interfered with your flying career meaning that he/she ought to defer this decision to Oklahoma City. See AME guide directions below:
Tremors, if sufficient to interfere with the performance of airman duties 12 All Submit a current status report to include functional status (degree of impairment as measured by strength, range of motion, pain), medications with side effects and all pertinent medical reports
Requires FAA Decision
For all the above conditions: If the applicant is otherwise qualified, the FAA may issue a limited certificate. This certificate will permit the applicant to proceed with flight training until ready for a MFT. At that time, at the applicant's request, the FAA (usually the AMCD) will authorize the student pilot to take a MFT in conjunction with the regular flight test.
The MFT and regular private pilot flight test are conducted by an FAA inspector. This affords the student an opportunity to demonstrate the ability to control the aircraft despite the handicap. The FAA inspector prepares a written report and indicates whether there is a safety problem. If the airman successfully completes the MFT, a medical certificate and SODA will be sent to the airman from AMCD.
.....
So yes, you can try and hide this and berate the world for still using carbon smeared on wood pulp as a memory aid, but don't doubt for a moment that what you are doing is illegal. And documentation of that is just sitting there, out of your reach but definitely not out of reach of the FAA.
You may not get caught, you may be able to make your right hand work well enough to get by, but yes, you are concealing a material fact and what you are doing is illegal. More to the point, it's stupid. It's in your interest as well as the FAAs to do this the right way.
The sad fact is that the FAA almost certainly would waiver this and you might even be better off on medication and a waiver.
I can't speak for your AME, but if I were him/her I'd get a psych eval on you as well.
1. You HAVE been diagnosed as having a neurological disorder. Your personal physician could not have offered you a prescription medication that would have required FAA approval without having made such a diagnosis. And he/she undoubtedly entered the ICD-10 coding for that diagnosis into the electronic medical record and it is now there forever. EMR systems have multiple backups and can't afford to lose data, so even if you didn't use medical insurance (who woukd have also received that ICD-10 code) there is an indelible record that you HAVE been diagnosed.
2. It is not for your physician to make the decision if your tremor is aero medically significant, not medically, not legally, and not ethically.
3. It is not for YOU to make the decision. Not legally, not medically, not ethically.
4. You have admitted that this has already interfered with your flying, and you have barely gotten started. You haven't gotten to the point where you are a mile outside the outer marker and approach tells you the guy in front of you just went missed approach and the field has gone well below minimums and they are now changing the published missed approach and in the event you cannot land - which has become a near certainty - you now need to go to some distant intersection at some nonstandard altitude and hold on some arbitrary heading until they sort out what to do with the guy in front of you and the three guys on back of you. And you have to copy that down single Pilot IFR while continuing to at least fly the localizer and maintain altitude because you can't actually go missed approach before the missed approach point either. You are, in fact, simply INCOMPETENT to have a meaningful opinion of your ability to do that.
5. At this point even your AME might not be able to clear you for anything more than a student license because this HAS interfered with your flying career meaning that he/she ought to defer this decision to Oklahoma City. See AME guide directions below:
Tremors, if sufficient to interfere with the performance of airman duties 12 All Submit a current status report to include functional status (degree of impairment as measured by strength, range of motion, pain), medications with side effects and all pertinent medical reports
Requires FAA Decision
For all the above conditions: If the applicant is otherwise qualified, the FAA may issue a limited certificate. This certificate will permit the applicant to proceed with flight training until ready for a MFT. At that time, at the applicant's request, the FAA (usually the AMCD) will authorize the student pilot to take a MFT in conjunction with the regular flight test.
The MFT and regular private pilot flight test are conducted by an FAA inspector. This affords the student an opportunity to demonstrate the ability to control the aircraft despite the handicap. The FAA inspector prepares a written report and indicates whether there is a safety problem. If the airman successfully completes the MFT, a medical certificate and SODA will be sent to the airman from AMCD.
.....
So yes, you can try and hide this and berate the world for still using carbon smeared on wood pulp as a memory aid, but don't doubt for a moment that what you are doing is illegal. And documentation of that is just sitting there, out of your reach but definitely not out of reach of the FAA.
You may not get caught, you may be able to make your right hand work well enough to get by, but yes, you are concealing a material fact and what you are doing is illegal. More to the point, it's stupid. It's in your interest as well as the FAAs to do this the right way.
The sad fact is that the FAA almost certainly would waiver this and you might even be better off on medication and a waiver.
I can't speak for your AME, but if I were him/her I'd get a psych eval on you as well.
If the FAA nixes me because of this at the next medical then I’ll just go to law school. I know a lot of lawyers, and I never see any of them pick up a pen, except to write a signature. They literally live on their keyboards, and with DocuSign, they hardly ever have to pick up a pen.
Thank all of you for your constructive comments.
And no, I’m not a millennial lol
A bit older than that.
09-30-2018, 09:10 AM
#27
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by Excargodog
You know, subtlety is wasted on some people, and you seem to be one of those people. So here it is, NOT sugar coated:
1. You HAVE been diagnosed as having a neurological disorder. Your personal physician could not have offered you a prescription medication that would have required FAA approval without having made such a diagnosis. And he/she undoubtedly entered the ICD-10 coding for that diagnosis into the electronic medical record and it is now there forever. EMR systems have multiple backups and can't afford to lose data, so even if you didn't use medical insurance (who woukd have also received that ICD-10 code) there is an indelible record that you HAVE been diagnosed.
2. It is not for your physician to make the decision if your tremor is aero medically significant, not medically, not legally, and not ethically.
3. It is not for YOU to make the decision. Not legally, not medically, not ethically.
4. You have admitted that this has already interfered with your flying, and you have barely gotten started. You haven't gotten to the point where you are a mile outside the outer marker and approach tells you the guy in front of you just went missed approach and the field has gone well below minimums and they are now changing the published missed approach and in the event you cannot land - which has become a near certainty - you now need to go to some distant intersection at some nonstandard altitude and hold on some arbitrary heading until they sort out what to do with the guy in front of you and the three guys on back of you. And you have to copy that down single Pilot IFR while continuing to at least fly the localizer and maintain altitude because you can't actually go missed approach before the missed approach point either. You are, in fact, simply INCOMPETENT to have a meaningful opinion of your ability to do that.
5. At this point even your AME might not be able to clear you for anything more than a student license because this HAS interfered with your flying career meaning that he/she ought to defer this decision to Oklahoma City. See AME guide directions below:
Tremors, if sufficient to interfere with the performance of airman duties 12 All Submit a current status report to include functional status (degree of impairment as measured by strength, range of motion, pain), medications with side effects and all pertinent medical reports
Requires FAA Decision
For all the above conditions: If the applicant is otherwise qualified, the FAA may issue a limited certificate. This certificate will permit the applicant to proceed with flight training until ready for a MFT. At that time, at the applicant's request, the FAA (usually the AMCD) will authorize the student pilot to take a MFT in conjunction with the regular flight test.
The MFT and regular private pilot flight test are conducted by an FAA inspector. This affords the student an opportunity to demonstrate the ability to control the aircraft despite the handicap. The FAA inspector prepares a written report and indicates whether there is a safety problem. If the airman successfully completes the MFT, a medical certificate and SODA will be sent to the airman from AMCD.
.....
So yes, you can try and hide this and berate the world for still using carbon smeared on wood pulp as a memory aid, but don't doubt for a moment that what you are doing is illegal. And documentation of that is just sitting there, out of your reach but definitely not out of reach of the FAA.
You may not get caught, you may be able to make your right hand work well enough to get by, but yes, you are concealing a material fact and what you are doing is illegal. More to the point, it's stupid. It's in your interest as well as the FAAs to do this the right way.
The sad fact is that the FAA almost certainly would waiver this and you might even be better off on medication and a waiver.
I can't speak for your AME, but if I were him/her I'd get a psych eval on you as well.
1. You HAVE been diagnosed as having a neurological disorder. Your personal physician could not have offered you a prescription medication that would have required FAA approval without having made such a diagnosis. And he/she undoubtedly entered the ICD-10 coding for that diagnosis into the electronic medical record and it is now there forever. EMR systems have multiple backups and can't afford to lose data, so even if you didn't use medical insurance (who woukd have also received that ICD-10 code) there is an indelible record that you HAVE been diagnosed.
2. It is not for your physician to make the decision if your tremor is aero medically significant, not medically, not legally, and not ethically.
3. It is not for YOU to make the decision. Not legally, not medically, not ethically.
4. You have admitted that this has already interfered with your flying, and you have barely gotten started. You haven't gotten to the point where you are a mile outside the outer marker and approach tells you the guy in front of you just went missed approach and the field has gone well below minimums and they are now changing the published missed approach and in the event you cannot land - which has become a near certainty - you now need to go to some distant intersection at some nonstandard altitude and hold on some arbitrary heading until they sort out what to do with the guy in front of you and the three guys on back of you. And you have to copy that down single Pilot IFR while continuing to at least fly the localizer and maintain altitude because you can't actually go missed approach before the missed approach point either. You are, in fact, simply INCOMPETENT to have a meaningful opinion of your ability to do that.
5. At this point even your AME might not be able to clear you for anything more than a student license because this HAS interfered with your flying career meaning that he/she ought to defer this decision to Oklahoma City. See AME guide directions below:
Tremors, if sufficient to interfere with the performance of airman duties 12 All Submit a current status report to include functional status (degree of impairment as measured by strength, range of motion, pain), medications with side effects and all pertinent medical reports
Requires FAA Decision
For all the above conditions: If the applicant is otherwise qualified, the FAA may issue a limited certificate. This certificate will permit the applicant to proceed with flight training until ready for a MFT. At that time, at the applicant's request, the FAA (usually the AMCD) will authorize the student pilot to take a MFT in conjunction with the regular flight test.
The MFT and regular private pilot flight test are conducted by an FAA inspector. This affords the student an opportunity to demonstrate the ability to control the aircraft despite the handicap. The FAA inspector prepares a written report and indicates whether there is a safety problem. If the airman successfully completes the MFT, a medical certificate and SODA will be sent to the airman from AMCD.
.....
So yes, you can try and hide this and berate the world for still using carbon smeared on wood pulp as a memory aid, but don't doubt for a moment that what you are doing is illegal. And documentation of that is just sitting there, out of your reach but definitely not out of reach of the FAA.
You may not get caught, you may be able to make your right hand work well enough to get by, but yes, you are concealing a material fact and what you are doing is illegal. More to the point, it's stupid. It's in your interest as well as the FAAs to do this the right way.
The sad fact is that the FAA almost certainly would waiver this and you might even be better off on medication and a waiver.
I can't speak for your AME, but if I were him/her I'd get a psych eval on you as well.
scenario. Wouldn’t it be dangerous, as a single pilot
, to hand write an unexpected ATC clearance while on the ILS, regardless of writing ability? If you had an iPad, couldn’t you type in the instructions? My typing speed is about 80 words a minute, and is much, much faster than hand writing.
09-30-2018, 11:10 AM
#28
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 15
I can't speak for your AME, but if I were him/her I'd get a psych eval on you as well.[/QUOTE]
That’s actually a pretty cheap shot. It reveals more about your character than mine.
So, I’ll go ahead and issue my own cheap shot.
It was a mistake to post here. I had expected highly professional replies. And I did get a few. But I’m surprised by some of the juvenile and negative replies from others.
I get it. A once highly valued profession, where airline pilots were thought of as second only to astronauts, has turned into a profession where the general public sees airline pilots just above bus drivers, which is why many, many folks will no longer pursue the career, stay in the military, etc.
I suppose I would also be bitter if I were in this career, and this was the case. Because it’s clear that some of your are very bitter. I see it in airport terminals all the time...pilots who look completely unhappy and totally fatigued.
Good luck ya all.
That’s actually a pretty cheap shot. It reveals more about your character than mine.
So, I’ll go ahead and issue my own cheap shot.
It was a mistake to post here. I had expected highly professional replies. And I did get a few. But I’m surprised by some of the juvenile and negative replies from others.
I get it. A once highly valued profession, where airline pilots were thought of as second only to astronauts, has turned into a profession where the general public sees airline pilots just above bus drivers, which is why many, many folks will no longer pursue the career, stay in the military, etc.
I suppose I would also be bitter if I were in this career, and this was the case. Because it’s clear that some of your are very bitter. I see it in airport terminals all the time...pilots who look completely unhappy and totally fatigued.
Good luck ya all.
09-30-2018, 01:00 PM
#29
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,499
Originally Posted by jupiter87140
I can't speak for your AME, but if I were him/her I'd get a psych eval on you as well.
. That’s actually a pretty cheap shot. It reveals more about your character than mine.
So, I’ll go ahead and issue my own cheap shot. It was a mistake to post here. I had expected highly professional replies. And I did get a few. But I’m surprised by some of the juvenile and negative replies from others.
I get it. A once highly valued profession, where airline pilots were thought of as second only to astronauts, has turned into a profession where the general public sees airline pilots just above bus drivers, which is why many, many folks will no longer pursue the career, stay in the military, etc.
I suppose I would also be bitter if I were in this career, and this was the case. Because it’s clear that some of your are very bitter. I see it in airport terminals all the time...pilots who look completely unhappy and totally fatigued.
Good luck ya all.
So, I’ll go ahead and issue my own cheap shot. It was a mistake to post here. I had expected highly professional replies. And I did get a few. But I’m surprised by some of the juvenile and negative replies from others.
I get it. A once highly valued profession, where airline pilots were thought of as second only to astronauts, has turned into a profession where the general public sees airline pilots just above bus drivers, which is why many, many folks will no longer pursue the career, stay in the military, etc.
I suppose I would also be bitter if I were in this career, and this was the case. Because it’s clear that some of your are very bitter. I see it in airport terminals all the time...pilots who look completely unhappy and totally fatigued.
Good luck ya all.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9384876
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9384876
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4904750/
https://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/60685.pdf
Seriously, guy, you warrant a work up. Not a cheap shot, just a fact. Good luck to you. You are likely going to need it.
09-30-2018, 04:10 PM
#30
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by Excargodog
Cheap shot? No. Merely a statement of fact. Someone so totally lacking in insight is at considerable risk to have other even more serious psych issues.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9384876
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9384876
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4904750/
https://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/60685.pdf
Seriously, guy, you warrant a work up. Not a cheap shot, just a fact. Good luck to you. You are likely going to need it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9384876
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9384876
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4904750/
https://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs/60685.pdf
Seriously, guy, you warrant a work up. Not a cheap shot, just a fact. Good luck to you. You are likely going to need it.
There is no way you are a pilot with a major airline. And if you are, that airline has seriously jumped the shark. I am good friends with a few major pilots, most all of who fly for Delta. I’m well aware of their hiring methods, interviewing techniques, etc., and you, your attitude, and thinking process simply would never make it through a process like that. They would figure you out within 10 minutes, and say thanks, but no thanks. There is no way someone with your simplistic mindset would ever be hired at an airline like that. Again, if you have been then that airline has definitely jumped the shark.
I would much rather have an issue with my left hand, which is easily remedied by learning to write with my other hand, then have your disability of telling someone on this forum, with no qualification whatsoever, that they need a “psych eval.”
You will need at least an undergraduate degree in psychology before you start pronouncing that other humans need a “psych eval.” Do you possess at least that? And most likely you would need a PhD in psychology, or a medical degree and a psychiatry residency before you could do that. Do you have either of those?
And have you ever considered that telling someone, when you obviously are unqualified to do so, that they need a “psych eval,” could do more harm than good, if it was a person who didn’t know that you are unqualified to make such a recommendation?
Good luck to you. I hope you’re not trying to get to the majors. As I said, I’m intimitely familiar with the interview process at one of the major, premier airlines, and you would not make it through 10 minutes of their interview (even if you went through an interview prep company; yes, they know all about those companies, and expect the canned answers from people coming from those prep shops) with your simplistic thinking. They would figure you out so quickly, and send you home so quickly, that your head would be spinning.
But hey, good luck, and best wishes to you, amateur “psychologist!”
Last edited by jupiter87140; 09-30-2018 at 04:23 PM.
