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Old 09-27-2018, 11:34 AM   #11  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiredSoul View Post
Youíre intentionally skating around it.
Youíre not understanding the legal implications of the medical application.
Knowing that you do and avoiding an official diagnosis doesnít make it go away.
And stop blaming the pen and paper.
+1
You did know a pilot just got JAIL TIME for omission on a medical right?
Blaming it on pen and paper...wow.
Hate to see you program an FMS....
Get a diagnosis, then a clear to fly...
Or this skeleton will be a ticking time bomb... waiting to explode.
It MUST be dealt with, and doing it now gives you the BEST chance of not having bigger issues, be it LEGAL or $$$...
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Old 09-27-2018, 02:03 PM   #12  
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You should probably go back to the doctor that gave you the first class medical and make sure this isn't a problem before you spend any more money on flying.
10 hours of flying and you haven't landed yet? That's a huge red flag. I'd be looking for a new instructor. I usually did the landing on the first lesson then had the student working on them on lesson 2 and beyond. I haven't instructed in over 10 years, so hopefully someone more up to date on recent training trends can chime in but this sounds unreasonable.
I can't speak to your specific condition but I've met two pilots that both had essentially no use of one hand. One was a CFI, the other an airline pilot. You need to get this addressed though. I'd start with AOPA aeromedical.
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Old 09-27-2018, 06:12 PM   #13  
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10 hrs is 6-7 lessons and maybe the conditions werenít right for him to land yet or maybe the basics arenít there.
I steered away from early landings and early soloís. Thereís no point.

But back to this case.
Iíve dealt with three students that had vision in only one eye, one student with only two fingers on one hand, one with Aspergers, one with MS.
They all got a medical and they all got their Private.
Stop complaining about the paperwork and get this sorted out.

If I were your instructor I would suggest to stop spending money till you have this sorted out. Why?
Because I care thatís why.
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Old 09-28-2018, 08:25 AM   #14  
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Thanks again all for your input on this.

I dispute any notion that I falsified anything on my medical questionnaire, and I believe any lawyer would agree with me. I have never brought this up with any doctor in the past, and have never been diagnosed with any "neurological disorder," and therefore it was appropriate to answer "no" to this on the FAA medical questionnaire. I could call up Oklahoma City today, and I'm sure they would tell me the exact same thing. If I had been diagnosed, and answered no, then I would have given a falsified answer on the questionnaire, and obviously be subject to the appropriate penalties. That is not the case here. I'm surprised that some here do not understand that. Very surprised.

My new instructor, the one who is concerned about my handwriting, was also surprised that I had not done a landing yet, and is aggressively pushing me in that direction. I've basically been flying the pattern, all the way up to final approach at about 300 ft AGL when he finishes the landing, with me closely following the controls. I believe on our next lesson he will have me do the landing, with him following closely on the controls. One thing we have where I live is a LOT of wind, especially very strong crosswinds and gusts, so many instructors take a bit longer to have their students introduced to the landing. Rather, they have the students follow them on the controls closely and gradually work them up to the landing.

In any event, I'm actually learning to write with my right hand, which has no issue whatsoever. It's not as difficult as I thought. Just write the alphabet out - upper and lower case - a few times a day, as well as numbers 1-10, and then start writing sentences and paragraphs. It's supposed to take about two months or so to do.

Perhaps I should take two or so months off of flight training until I am proficient with my right hand, so that I can use the archaic (back to the dinosaur days) handwriting to copy ATC instructions?

Also, I'm seeing my personal doctor today about the left hand issue. So, we shall see if I get a "diagnosis" finally, or whether he just thinks it is a minor issue. If I get a diagnosis then I will obviously have to disclose this at my next exam with the AME, which I would most certainly do.

I guess I have to state this one more time. This issue has no effect whatsoever on anything...anything...done in the cockpit, in terms of manipulating controls, switches, buttons, or anything else.

It only effects handwriting with my left hand. Not my right hand, and nothing else. It only effects the ability to fill out a book, using handwriting, with Hobbs time, tach time, etc. That's it!

I'm really, really surprised that aviation has not advanced to the point of being able to have a pilot enter this type of information using a keyboard, instead of using the archaic, (back to the Civil War days, back to the Revolutionary War days, back to the age of dinosaurs, back to the age of planet earth's formation) of having to hand write this info in. I think it's kind of ridiculous. I mean, airliners basically fly themselves these days, with airline pilots being more computer managers than stick and rudder people, (except for takeoff/landing/emergencies) but aviation still uses antiquated handwriting.

It seems pretty absurd to me, but oh well, that's the way it is.

I do appreciate all of your input, and the various points of view about this.
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Old 09-28-2018, 10:00 AM   #15  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiter87140 View Post
Thanks again all for your input on this.

I dispute any notion that I falsified anything on my medical questionnaire, and I believe any lawyer would agree with me. I have never brought this up with any doctor in the past, and have never been diagnosed with any "neurological disorder," and therefore it was appropriate to answer "no" to this on the FAA medical questionnaire. I could call up Oklahoma City today, and I'm sure they would tell me the exact same thing. If I had been diagnosed, and answered no, then I would have given a falsified answer on the questionnaire, and obviously be subject to the appropriate penalties. That is not the case here. I'm surprised that some here do not understand that. Very surprised.
The form does not just ask if you were diagnosed, it asks "have you ever had". I'd talk to a lawyer before you admit that you were aware of a neurological issue in the past and did not report it.

You're right that it's probably weak legalese for a criminal conviction, I'm sure DOJ wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole.

But the FAA operates under admin law (not civil or criminal law) and has a MUCH lower standard of evidence. They can easily abd unilaterally revoke your medical and student cert over this. This is fact, with plenty of historical case history.
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Old 09-28-2018, 10:49 AM   #16  
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Look, if you are getting a private pilot's license to fly for $h|ts and grins, this is a non-problem. But if you are starting down a career path, it's wise to get this taken care of before investing huge amounts of money. Having dealt with NUMEROUS AMEs, I can say with certainty that none of them would have been hypocritical enough to down someone for no more than crappy handwriting.

The only issue for the FAA is whether or not this is a PROGRESSIVE issue. If it's a static condition, it's no problem. And trust me, the answer to that question is even more important to you than it is to the FAA.
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Old 09-28-2018, 11:19 AM   #17  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jupiter87140 View Post
Thanks again all for your input on this.

I dispute any notion that I falsified anything on my medical questionnaire, and I believe any lawyer would agree with me. I have never brought this up with any doctor in the past, and have never been diagnosed with any "neurological disorder," and therefore it was appropriate to answer "no" to this on the FAA medical questionnaire. I could call up Oklahoma City today, and I'm sure they would tell me the exact same thing. If I had been diagnosed, and answered no, then I would have given a falsified answer on the questionnaire, and obviously be subject to the appropriate penalties. That is not the case here. I'm surprised that some here do not understand that. Very surprised.

My new instructor, the one who is concerned about my handwriting, was also surprised that I had not done a landing yet, and is aggressively pushing me in that direction. I've basically been flying the pattern, all the way up to final approach at about 300 ft AGL when he finishes the landing, with me closely following the controls. I believe on our next lesson he will have me do the landing, with him following closely on the controls. One thing we have where I live is a LOT of wind, especially very strong crosswinds and gusts, so many instructors take a bit longer to have their students introduced to the landing. Rather, they have the students follow them on the controls closely and gradually work them up to the landing.

In any event, I'm actually learning to write with my right hand, which has no issue whatsoever. It's not as difficult as I thought. Just write the alphabet out - upper and lower case - a few times a day, as well as numbers 1-10, and then start writing sentences and paragraphs. It's supposed to take about two months or so to do.

Perhaps I should take two or so months off of flight training until I am proficient with my right hand, so that I can use the archaic (back to the dinosaur days) handwriting to copy ATC instructions?

Also, I'm seeing my personal doctor today about the left hand issue. So, we shall see if I get a "diagnosis" finally, or whether he just thinks it is a minor issue. If I get a diagnosis then I will obviously have to disclose this at my next exam with the AME, which I would most certainly do.

I guess I have to state this one more time. This issue has no effect whatsoever on anything...anything...done in the cockpit, in terms of manipulating controls, switches, buttons, or anything else.

It only effects handwriting with my left hand. Not my right hand, and nothing else. It only effects the ability to fill out a book, using handwriting, with Hobbs time, tach time, etc. That's it!

I'm really, really surprised that aviation has not advanced to the point of being able to have a pilot enter this type of information using a keyboard, instead of using the archaic, (back to the Civil War days, back to the Revolutionary War days, back to the age of dinosaurs, back to the age of planet earth's formation) of having to hand write this info in. I think it's kind of ridiculous. I mean, airliners basically fly themselves these days, with airline pilots being more computer managers than stick and rudder people, (except for takeoff/landing/emergencies) but aviation still uses antiquated handwriting.

It seems pretty absurd to me, but oh well, that's the way it is.

I do appreciate all of your input, and the various points of view about this.
Glad with 10 hours and 6 lessons you are now an expert on this industry.


Sorry the industry is not advanced according to your desires. Get used to it if this is going to be your career. As you go forward you will be continually presented with cases where your employer will tell you "this is how we do it" and your job is to comply with SOP and procedure.


While a DPE may not notice your issue, it will come up further in your career, and the omission on your medical application WILL come back to haunt you. You don't want that sword of Damocles held over you for the rest of your career.
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Old 09-28-2018, 11:42 AM   #18  
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Even on the Airbus at a major airline we still have to write. Occasionally we fly to an airport that does not have PDC and we have write the clearance out. We are also expected to write down complex taxi clearances. It's not going away anytime soon.
I would not call the FAA over this, I'd start with your flight Dr.
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Old 09-28-2018, 01:06 PM   #19  
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Well, the bright side, he is not trying to go to watch making school.
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Old 09-28-2018, 03:26 PM   #20  
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Thanks ya all. Just got back from the doctor. He believes that I have a small tremor in the left hand, that affects only my handwriting, and nothing else. It is a not a major issue, and I have NOT been diagnosed with a "neurological disorder." He has offered to prescribe me with medication, which he believes will completely neutralize this issue. The alternative is for me to continue to learn to write with my right hand, which is progressing very well. The only problem is that I naturally want to write with my left hand, so this is a difficult choice.

The new medication for curing the left hand writing tremors would require me to submit it to the FAA for approval. It would be completely safe, but still require FAA medical approval.

I'm of the opinion that I would not like to do this medication, and would rather keep moving forward with learning to write with my right hand.

I believe this is the best option moving forward, in terms of safety of myself and others in the aviation community.

As far as the comments about automation in the aviation community...it is crazy that the aviation industry has not become completely automated and using the keyboard.

Give me a freakin break. Almost every other industry has become keyboard, totally electronic, paperless, except for the day you start a new job and have to fill out the tax, etc., paperwork. But aviation still uses old fashioned, Civil War, Revolutionary War era paper and pen? Ah, aviation...come into the 21st century.

In any event, I plan to continue with my training. I'm not taking any drugs. I will fill out the Civil War, Revolutionary War, pieces of paper with my newly activated right hand.

Thanks All!

Have a wonderful weekend!

p.s.

Those of you who believe that I should have indicated that I have a "neurological disorder" on the FAA medical questionnaire...well I think you have been flying too long with the autopilot. Your brain has atrophied with too much automation.

Do I have to spell it out to you autopilot/FMS addicts?

Ok, I will spell it out, since some births were more difficult than others.

I was NEVER diagnosed with a neurological disorder. The FAA medical asks if you have ever had such an issue. In order for you to answer "yes" to that question, you need to have been diagnosed with the disorder. I am not capable of self diagnosing a neurological disorder, since I am not a trained and board certified physician. Therefore, since I have not been diagnosed with such a condition, it was correct and logical to answer "no" to that issue on the medical questionnaire.

Was that enough spelling out for you geniuses? Or should I spell it out further?

Good Lord, please tell me that some of you who don't get that are not at a major airline. If you are, Lord Help us. You are probably not, as the MAJORS are generally pretty good at sifting out the less than highly intelligent.
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