Ken14

Hey Guys,

I started my ppl in 04 and had to stop cause of money and a week ago I went back to flying as I have the funds I need now. I went back to the same school I learned at before, its the only one that my local airport has, the next flight school is a good hour away driving.

So I got back into learning landings, turns , etc in the one "Cessna 152" they own, flown about 5 hours now, have roughly 25 hrs total. Now the other day he wanted to go up in the 172 as it would be more roomier for us , also saying it would be a better plane for our cross countrie, much faster aswell . That day we did 20 mins of ground work,he was talking about short field t/o and landings. We then departed in the C172 and did our short field t/o,then entered the pattern and he demostrated the short field landing. After that we did 3 more touch and goes and every time I would come to land I wasnt flaring enough becuase I was so use to the C150 approach compared to the higher up seating in the 172. I never did have a good landing in the 172 that night, each landing he was helping me out with the flare and what I basically wanted him to do was talk me throught it as we went into the flare instead of jumping in and helping, my approach was perfect everytime it was just the flare I couldn't nail it down for some reason, yet in the 152 I can do pretty good at.

After my flight was done and my billed paid, I was a bit ticked off because we spent 20 mins in classroom learning short field take offs and landings and then we did one in the circuit and the rest we just did regular landings via touch and goes. Seam like a waste of 20 mins because your paying for this. Right now just seams i go up for 1 hour, come in pay bill leave and they say thanks. I did ground school before and wanted to get in another to learn some of the stuff again but there next ones not till fall

I work till 5 everyday and try to go flying everyday after work when vfr conditions are in effect. The school I go to only operates the 152 and has 3 C172, the 152 is usally booked right up till 8pm which only gives me 1 hour or less of flying time. I have weekends off as well but unfortunatly the school has one instructor and he doesnt fly weekends, only sometimes If he can its like 6 or 8 pm again.

The question Im trying to get to is or any suggestions on the above statements. I would like to go to a bigger school where they operate more planes / instructors, but how do you guys out there pay the bills.Rent runs for 700 and food , car , etc also tack on extra costs. I would hate to stop again for a week or two to move.What kind of work were you doing well training full time or part-time. I just hate to take out a huge loan which I could be paying back for years, as we know the first years of flying dont pay the greatest so on top of that paying back a loan would be very hard.

Appreciate the help

POPA

First of all, it's important to remember that you're the customer in the flight training. Your instructor may, at times, cover stuff that maybe doesn't seem pertinent to you at the time. However, this shouldn't be happening on a consistent basis, and it's your responsibility to say something to your instructor if it does.
As far as where you go for your flight training, I would recommend a pilot academy only if you're trying to fly professionally, and then only if you can't find another FBO close by your home.

shamrok

Hey Ken, A technique I teach my students transsitioning to 172 from 152 usually works quite well. The height of the instrument panel is slightly taller as you know in the 172 vs. the 152. Most students try to see over it during the flare and usually end up flaring high because if this and drop like a rock. If you look out the left portion of your windscreen or even out the side window you can judge the height above the runway much easier. When you see or feel that you are about 6 feet above the runway you want to transition to landing attitude (flare). As soon as you feel the plane begin to sink continue with back pressure to maintain landing attitude. Continue until the mains touch down and continue to keep slight back pressure and gently lower the nose wheel down. After a few trips around the patch you will have developed a sense of where YOU need to start the flare using your peripheral vision to pick up on the runway enviornment around you. Everyone see's things differently during the flare so you will have to make adjustment's to make it work for you. Nobody makes perfect landings everytime, nobody. You just need to be consistent with your technique and youll be pleasantly suprised with a nice touchdown more times than not. As far as your instructor go's. POPA is right, you need to talk to him and let him know about your concerns. If he is a good instructor he will be happy to try and make your training more efficient and pleasurable for you. We all have bad days here and there, maybe it was just a bad day for him. If not then you owe it to yourself to have a conversation with him. Good luck!

Pilotpip

I've never flown a 152. But I always had my students flare to an attitute where the prop spinner is pointing at the tree tops at the end of the runway. That worked pretty nice. If you're in the northwest where the trees get big, don't do this.

It takes a couple hours to get used to a new model aircraft. 152s and 172s are similiar in layout as you know. They are different though.

I'll echo the sentiments above. You're the customer. Fly the aircraft you want to fly. It sounds like this place doesn't have a schedule that meets your needs. This will cost you money in the long run. Check around at other local airports. There may be a small FBO with a rental fleet and a couple instructors that can meet your schedule.

XcalibeR

The FBO I learned to fly at sold their 152 right before I took my PPL checkride. I was having the same problem which you're having. I had only flown the 172 four times before my checkride, and luckily I figured it out ON my checkride. My examiner wanted to see me land again, because I wasn't doing too well with them, and this time, just before I started flaring, I put in a throw or two of up trim. Greased it Try doing that once or twice, see if it works for you.

aerospacepilot

Tell us what field you are flying at and I think we can make a recommendation for you.

No matter where you are, I would not recommend going to a pilot academy. You mentioned that money was an issue at one point. Pilot academies give you the same training that you get at an FBO for more money. Ultimately, pilot academies are for pilots who want to fly professionally, who either have the extra money to burn, or don't mind having a loan for an additional $20,000-$50,000, depending upon the school and programs.

A couple of recommendations. First, the Cessna 172 is the most produced aircraft ever build in the United States (over 35,000 and still being produced everyday). Before it is retired, it will be the most produced aircraft in the history of aviation. As you can see at your flight school, you have much better odds of finding a 172 than anything else. So it is in your best interest to learn the 172. There is no need to fly the 1997 or newer 172's. They are essentially the same airplane as the older 172's, they just cost more. Fly the late 70's or early 80's 172's. They didn't call that period the "golden era" of aviation for nothing! I understand that it is frustrating right now, but you will eventually learn to fly the 172 and be happy that you did. If you ever want to take passengers, the 172 is the plane to do it in. If you want to get a commercial license, a great plane to do it in is a 172RG. The 172 is common, better for your schedule (and the flight school you are at) and I recommend taking a few hours of flight and ground training to learn.

As for the instructor, it is true that you are the customer. However, I do not see much reason for you to be upset. 20 minutes is nothing. You should have a 15-20 minute briefing before you go flying, especially at the point you are at in your training. Put it this way. You can either learn on the ground before you takeoff, or you can learn the steps in the airplane while you are concentrating on flying. The airplane is a horrible learning environment. You can either learn in a quiet, free of distractions classroom, or you can learn in the airplane when you are trying to fly, its loud, and you are being charged both for the instructor and the airplane!!

I kept detailed records of my flight training. It took me 55 hours to get my private. 10 solo and 45 dual (crowded airspace). I received 80 hours of instruction. Probably more (because one of my instructors would always round down). I am a smart guy and I did almost all my studying at home. But ground training is important, and you need to do it! Otherwise it is going to take you more hours in the airplane, and that costs a lot more than sitting on the ground with an instructor. Expect them to somewhat over train you. They should. You should know as much as possible. It will make you a better pilot. It will make you a safer pilot. Did I mention it will make you better and safer?
FYI. My oral took less than 45 minutes and my checkride took 1.3 hours. I passed with flying colors, and the DE said I made the best soft field landing he had ever seen on a checkride.

To recap. Don't go to a pilot academy. They are expensive and unnecessary. Learning to fly the 172 is a great idea and I highly recommend it. It may be frustrating for a couple hours, but well worth it. Finally, ground training is very important. 20 minutes is not a long briefing, infact I would 20 minutes is typical, if not less than it should be (for important flights).
Keep us updated if things change!

pete2800

It seems like with your schedule it would be more effective for you to use the 172. I got my private in a 152, then I had to make the same transition. For me, it was all about getting used to the different "sight picture" in the flare. Also, looking out the side window or side of the windscreen was mentioned earlier, and is good advice.

Heh Heh, nice. I laughed when I read this, as I'm from the Seattle area and imagining pointing the spinner at the treetops at some of the places up there (Langley) would certainly be an interesting experience.... Seems like a good idea anywhere else though.

-Ben

POPA

Unless the student has a few questions, I'd say that 20 minutes is longer than necessary for the preflight brief of a local VFR training flight. Any new manuevers should have been discussed during a ground lesson prior to the lesson in which they'll be flown; old manuevers will not require a 20-minute recap unless, as I said before, the student comes armed with questions.