Squawk_5543

When you are instructing students in an AATD simulator do you log that time as dual given?

Pilotpip

Why? You can't count it as total time.

Ewfflyer

Hrm, good question. I taught at a university program that had the Frasca's. I never did log any of it, since I wasn't at the controls. I was merely the "anti-christ" as one student put it. I was very clever in my failures

Squawk_5543

Thanks, just wanted to clarify.

WEACLRS

Yes. Log it as dual given. It is not total duration of flight, which is what most pilots call total time, because it did not occur in flight It is however instrument flight instruction given. Other than keeping track of the total amount of instruction time you've given, it won't help you with total flight time. If someday you wanted to become a DPE, it would help there as some of the minimum requirements include having given a certain amount of dual, both visual and instrument.

FlyerJosh

JMHO, but if you're so short on dual given hours that you need to include time in an FTD/AATD to become a DPE, you probably aren't qualified to be a DPE.

The only instruction that I would consider tracking is that in a full motion level C/D simulator in a part 142 environment. Even then, I probably wouldn't include it in my formal pilot logbook. (If you're that concerned about the time, get a second "FTD/SIM/ground instruction" logbook.

rickair7777

SIM instructor time IS NOT dual given. I think the regs mention dual given as FLIGHT time in an airplane. Many airlines and other employers will ask for a breakdown of your pilot vs. instructor time and your totals will NOT add up right if you log sim time as dual given.

It is definately worth logging the sim instructor time though...if you get furloughed you may want to take a sim job, and competetiveness for that is often based on how much sim instructor time you have. Make a seperate column for it.

If you don't believe me, get onto airlineapps and try to fill in your flight times...

Squawk_5543

Thanks for the info. I knew it wasn't part of total time but I wasn't sure if dual given is for flight only. Now I know. Thanks again.

WEACLRS

Hi Rick,

Part 61.1 has three definitions that fall into the category of "dual given" (a better label would be 'instruction given') for a CFI. The first as you stated is "flight training" which must occur in flight. The second is "ground training" which must occur on the ground. The third is "pilot time" which includes training given in sims and FTD's. To quote the reg:

"61.1(12) Pilot time means that time in which a person—
(i) Serves as a required pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device; or
(iii) Gives training as an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device."

I admit I don't log time I've given while teaching ground, but I do track and log time I've given in simulators and approved level 3, 5, and 6 flight training devices.

T2Pilot

Have you considered 61.189(a):

"A flight instructor must sign the logbook of each person to whom
that instructor has given flight training or ground training."