Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-08-2006, 05:52 PM   #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
NE_Pilot's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Default Logging Time As Safety Pilot

I am going to be a Safety Pilot for a Cross-Country flight tomorrow, for a friend of mine, he will be under the hood for the majority of the flight. So my question is how do I log this time?? The regs aren't very clear on this, atleast to me.

Is it PIC or SIC??? It seems like it can be both.
I assume I can log it in Total Time, ASEL, and Day Hours, is that correct??
I don't think I would log it as cross-country time, and I know I don't log the landings.

Any help would be appreciated, don't want to get in trouble over the inproper logging of this time.
NE_Pilot is online now  
Old 02-08-2006, 06:51 PM   #2  
Gets Weekends Off
 
MikeB525's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 584
Default

I'm working on IFR right now. According to my CFII, the safety pilot can log the entire flight total time (in the category and day/night), and the actual time that your friend is under the hood you can log as PIC. As for cross country, if it is a cross country then I think you get cross country time as well. If this is correct, here's how you could log it:

It's a cross country flight and the round trip is 3 hours. Your friend logged 2.7 hours on the hood. I believe you could log it as:

Total time: 3.0
PIC: 2.7
SEL: 3.0
Day: 3.0
XC: 3.0
PIC XC: 2.7

I think thats they way you'd do it.
MikeB525 is offline  
Old 02-08-2006, 09:00 PM   #3  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 29,030
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeB525
I'm working on IFR right now. According to my CFII, the safety pilot can log the entire flight total time (in the category and day/night), and the actual time that your friend is under the hood you can log as PIC. As for cross country, if it is a cross country then I think you get cross country time as well. If this is correct, here's how you could log it:

It's a cross country flight and the round trip is 3 hours. Your friend logged 2.7 hours on the hood. I believe you could log it as:

Total time: 3.0
PIC: 2.7
SEL: 3.0
Day: 3.0
XC: 3.0
PIC XC: 2.7

I think thats they way you'd do it.
Close but not quite. Since this aircraft is single pilot, you can only log that time that the other pilot is actually under the hood (2.7). You can log PIC, day, XC, night, SEL etc., but only the hood value. You cannot log landings or instrument approaches unless you actually fly them. If you go into actual IMC, your buddy is no longer under the hood, he's in actual, so he logs actual and you log nothing. Also, he has to log the name of his safety pilot (you).

SIC time can ONLY be logged in an aircraft that is type rated for an SIC. Sometimes people log SIC when flying 135 ops in a single-pilot plane because the 135 cert requires two pilots, but even that's pretty iffy.

If you log that extra .3 in some but not all categories, it will throw a huge red flag when an airline adds up your log book. They have a real quick & dirty way of verifing your logbook accuracy...
Day + Night = Total Time
SE + ME = Total Time

If this stuff doesn't add up, then they will really start to dig...

Last edited by rickair7777; 02-08-2006 at 09:04 PM.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 02-17-2006, 08:22 PM   #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Short Bus Drive's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Guppy Capt.
Posts: 1,886
Default

Looking at a FAA interpretation of these...

"...the pilot who is under the hood may log PIC time for that flight time in which he is the sole manipulator of the controls of the aircraft, provided he is rated for that aircraft. The appropriately rated safety pilot may concurrently log as second in command (SIC) that time during which he is acting as safety pilot.
The two pilots may, however, agree prior to initiating the flight that the safety pilot will be the PIC responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during the flight. If this is done, then the safety pilot may log all the flight time as PIC time in accordance with FAR 1.1 and the pilot under the hood may log, concurrently, all of the flight time during which he is the sole manipulator of the controls as PIC time in accordance with FAR 61.51(c)(2)(i)."

ALSO, in another to a person's questions:
"Approval for single pilot operations with use of an operative approved autopilot system under FAR 135.105 gives an operator an additional option in the conduct of operations. It does not mandate that all future flights be conducted in that manner. The operator can elect to fly trips with two pilots, as is otherwise required for flight in IFR conditions under FAR 135.101, using the second in command instead of the autopilot.
Your second question asks if, under the circumstances given above, the SIC can log time as SIC when the designated pilot in command is flying the aircraft. The answer is yes, as long as the certificate holder is using the SIC as a crewmember instead of exercising the autopilot authorization.In other words, the certificate holder elects not to conduct an IFR flight using the single pilot with a functioning autopilot option, but rather conducts an IFR flight using two qualified pilots.The two pilots are then "required by the regulations under which the flight is conducted", FAR 61.51(c)(3), and the assumption is that the second pilot (SIC) will function as a required crewmember, and SIC time may validly be logged. "

That person can even log (not ACT AS) PIC...
"If a pilot is designated as PIC for a flight by the certificate holder, as required by FAR 135.109, that person is pilot in command for the entire flight, no matter who is actually manipulating the controls of the aircraft, because that pilot is responsible for the safety and operation of the aircraft....a multiengine airplane flown under Part 135 by two pilots can have both pilots logging time as pilot in command when the appropriately rated second in command is manipulating the controls.
Note the "appropriately rated" part, and not ACTING as PIC.

Most airlines ask for PIC time in which you "signed for the aircraft" though, not "logged" it

Last edited by Short Bus Drive; 02-17-2006 at 08:35 PM.
Short Bus Drive is offline  
Old 02-22-2006, 08:46 PM   #5  
Line Holder
 
shurb's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 41
Default

I wonder how the airlines go about verifying a logbook.
shurb is offline  
Old 09-14-2006, 07:21 PM   #6  
On Reserve
 
BenM's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Ground School
Posts: 18
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shurb View Post
I wonder how the airlines go about verifying a logbook.
I would guess that alot of it is done on faith! But also if you say you have 58 hours of act IFR they give you a sim check and you can't do an ILS to save your life my bet is they won't believe you.
BenM is offline  
Old 09-21-2006, 05:01 AM   #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
overspeed's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 192
Default

Or they just flip through a few pages and say...okay, okay.. so you're right about at the minimums how are you going to transition to a jet? in a sweet southern drawl. At on regional atleast, cough, 9E. Unless its XJT they run all of the numbers into a spreadsheet.
overspeed is offline  
Old 03-20-2008, 08:51 PM   #8  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 142
Default

I am not clear on this yet. I will be acting as a safety pilot tomorrow for one of my friends, and would like to know: do I log the total flight time as my total flight time or do I just log his hood time as my total flight time/PIC time?

Your opinion will be appreciated.
wmarti31 is offline  
Old 03-20-2008, 08:53 PM   #9  
Gets Weekends Off
 
de727ups's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,348
Default

You should only log the time when he's under the hood as safety pilot.
de727ups is offline  
Old 03-20-2008, 11:47 PM   #10  
Custom User Title
 
AZFlyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,954
Default

I only skimmed through the posts, but it has always been my understanding that the safety pilot my NOT log any *x-ctry* PIC. Only normal PIC, I guess you could say, and only when the other pilot is under the hood, as others have said.

The only pilot that may log x-ctry PIC is the pilot that is under the hood, due to him supposedly being the sole-manipulator of the controls.

I did not see anyone else mention the x-ctry PIC vs. normal PIC bit in this regard.

Anyone able to clarify?
AZFlyer is online now  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lost Logbook questions & Logging Flight Time? Pilot41 Hangar Talk 13 12-01-2017 01:21 PM
Type rating worth anything?? Herc130AV8R Military 25 03-22-2008 05:22 PM
Letter from Alaska Chief pilot mike734 Major 36 09-22-2006 07:33 AM
Logging flight time satchmo Flight Schools and Training 13 03-11-2006 12:52 PM
New FAA Requirement: Reduce Safety (by John Carr, NATCA President) AUS_ATC Hangar Talk 0 03-08-2006 06:56 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:52 PM.