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Old 07-17-2006, 02:05 PM   #1  
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Default Lost Logbook questions & Logging Flight Time?

I have 2 questions:

1. How is total time logged? I'm assuming it's SEL+MEL=TOTAL TIME. Sim time regardless of level of the sim can't be included in total flight time. Also how is student pilot time logged (is sudent pilot SEL logged as SEC or just Student pilot, same question regarding MEL before you get your type rating)?
It's been years, I forget.

2. What is proceedure for a lost logbook? I have my logbook for the past 7 years, but have moved and have yet to find my previous 2 logbooks since move. I know I'm not the first this has happened to.
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Old 07-17-2006, 02:23 PM   #2  
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1: If you are not qualified to fly the aircraft i.e. a complex airplane and you do not have your complex endorsement then you will log it simply as dual recieved not as second in command. There is no such thing as second in command* unless that particular aircraft requires it (it goes more into detail than that, for SEC but that is the basic idea) If you are endorsed for say a complex aircraft and you are logging dual, you may log dual and PIC since you will be the sole manipulator of the controls and are endorsed to legally fly that airplane.

so...total time equals all of your SEL+MEL to include all dual recieved where you were a student pilot and not acting as pilot in command, it is still total time. This applies to SEL and MEL, as a private pilot working on your MEL rating, it will only be dual recieved until you pass your checkride, then further training in a ME, say towards your MEI will be PIC and dual recieved.

2: Not a great thing when you lose your log book but here is what i do. Every so often i make a copy of my most recent log book page for my records, this also applies to anytime i do anything that applies towards a rating such as BFR's and checkrides. Even better is if you can scan your logbook (difficult if you have many thousands of hours) and then keep a scanned copy on a disk. If all is lost you will have to just start a new logbook with the brought forward times that you know for a fact you last had and be ready to do ALOT of explaining when you get to an interview. It happens though, someone suggested to keep old logbooks in a ziploc and put them in the freezer and it is likely to survive emergencies.

I hope this helps...If you want any more detail just ask.

*SEC applies to mostly aircraft over 12,500 such as your lears and your Citation X's, larger King Airs, RJ's and many many more where insurance requires that the aircraft have two pilots. In some cases some of these aircraft can be certified for single pilot operations with possible restrictions. Pretty much all of your GA aircraft will not require 2 pilots though.
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Old 07-17-2006, 02:32 PM   #3  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot41
I have 2 questions:

1. How is total time logged? I'm assuming it's SEL+MEL=TOTAL TIME. Sim time regardless of level of the sim can't be included in total flight time. Also how is student pilot time logged (is sudent pilot SEL logged as SEC or just Student pilot, same question regarding MEL before you get your type rating)?
It's been years, I forget.

I use the Jepp Professional logbook. I use category and class. Single, multi, land or sea, helicopter, glider etc. I only fly multi-engine land now, so it's easy. Then it has the conditions of the flight: night, instrument, or hood. It has a separate column for simulator time, which I log my simulator time only there and not also in the total time column. Then it has the type of time: cross country, solo, PIC, SIC, CFI, etc.

As for student pilot solo time, I logged it in the solo column. For any other student time, I logged it as PIC and dual received. I'm a pilot and I'm flying the plane, so I'm PIC. Some may argue this, but who really cares? It's not solo time. Second in command time is when you are second in command of an aircraft requiring two pilots.

2. What is proceedure for a lost logbook? I have my logbook for the past 7 years, but have moved and have yet to find my previous 2 logbooks since move. I know I'm not the first this has happened to.
If you have your latest logbook with the totals, you should be fine. When you fill out FAA applications for rating you also put your time in them. there is a record. They know, just keep filling out your latest logbook. I don't show anyone my 6 logbooks, just my last one. Of course, no one cares since I have every certificate and rating I need already. If you lost all your logbooks, that would be more difficult.
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Old 07-17-2006, 03:10 PM   #4  
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Thanks

As far as logbooks go not too worried, my TT is just over 10,000 hrs, with ATP, MEL, two type ratings, etc.
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Old 11-22-2006, 04:52 AM   #5  
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I need some help!!

About a year ago I went to go hop on a flight when i realized that my logbook case was empty. About a week earlier I was flying with a friend, that has a nasty habit of constantly rushing through everything he does, and I remember sitting at the FBO after flying filling out my logbook when he started with that crap. I had lost my logbook. I frankly don't know how or why but for some reason when i packed my flightbag i must have seen my logbook case and thought it was in there or maybe i put something over it but reagrdless the point is that i was diverting my attention to this guy and the result was my lost logbook. A week later when a realized that I probably wasn't gonna see it again I nearly lost my mind. I had appx.1200 hours and about 3-1/2 years worth of flying that I didn't know how i was going to recover. We had just moved and I couldn't find the copies of the cummulative hours. Worst of all is the fact that more than 3/4 of the flying i had done had been in a friend's cherokee that we would fly the crap out of just cause we were splitting on fuel. My old intructor even told me that since i didn't have any records that there was no way of recovering the hours. So I did what he said which was to dig out my old PPL logbook and start training again and just get my instrument and commercial. Not too long ago I found the copies so i've been really excited about starting a new logbook with my totals. My instructor told me that there would be some conflict with the 8710s for instrument and commercial at the FSDO and that i should figure-out a way of amending those totals so that in a couple of years when i'm old enough for my ATP i'll be able to have the 8710 filled with my true total times, without there being any problems.

Please if any of you know the procedure or perhaps have been in a similar situation I would really appreciate some help. My local FSDO doesn't seem to know how to handle this and have been dragging there feet. Either way TIA and i hope this doesn't happen to any of you, This is literally a pilot's worst nightmare!!

-Poorpilot
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:45 PM   #6  
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Default Mel & sel

Silly question I know, but what exactly does SEL and MEL stand for?..

Single Engine XX?
Multi Engine XX?

Thanks
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Old 11-28-2017, 05:05 PM   #7  
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Not to hijack the thread but regarding Total Time what is the consensus on including time in a "fat ultralight" that was not N-numbered prior to 2012 when Sport Pilot came along? I have a separate log book for this such time from the early to mid 2000s. There's an FAR that addresses this saying you can't but it appears there are some loopholes there. I'm not using the time towards a certificate or rating I just think it would be valuable to show the experience as total time only to a potential employer in the line of flying I'd like to do. I learned a LOT in those first couple hundred hours about true open cockpit seat of the pants aviating!!
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Old 11-29-2017, 05:52 AM   #8  
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Single engine land, multi engine land v. single engine sea, multi engine sea
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:29 AM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidflyer9AF View Post
Not to hijack the thread but regarding Total Time what is the consensus on including time in a "fat ultralight" that was not N-numbered prior to 2012 when Sport Pilot came along? I have a separate log book for this such time from the early to mid 2000s. There's an FAR that addresses this saying you can't but it appears there are some loopholes there. I'm not using the time towards a certificate or rating I just think it would be valuable to show the experience as total time only to a potential employer in the line of flying I'd like to do. I learned a LOT in those first couple hundred hours about true open cockpit seat of the pants aviating!!
If it's a grey area, don't go there. Airlines like conservative people.

If there's an FAR, or FAA legal interpretation, which clearly allows it, then it should be OK.

Even if it's not loggable, you can mention it on your resume... good conversation starter for the interview, and many folks on an interview panel will appreciate bush flying, seaplanes, ultralights, etc.

But since employers use total time as a key measure of experience, many would consider the use of ultralight time as a fraudulent attempt to "cut in line".
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Old 11-29-2017, 07:19 AM   #10  
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Is there any advantage or disadvantage to a student pilot utilizing an app like LogTen Pro instead of a paper logbook?
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