Link545

Hello!

I am a 25-year-old looking to make a career change to become a pilot. I think the best route for me is going to a university flight school as I would like to study finance at the same time since it is recommended to major in something else as a backup. What are your thoughts on the University of North Dakota and Western Michigan University? Do you have any other recommendations for the best flight schools? Also, what could I do to make my application as strong as possible?

Thank you for your help!

QRH Bingo

You’ll receive a varied set of suggestions and advice on this topic so here goes mine. There is a bit of information missing to make a complete suggestion, however.

Do you already have a college degree?
What type of career field are you in? Specifics do not matter, but what type of income does it provide?
You are interested in a large university with an aviation program. How do you intend to pay for that? Flight training alone is expensive without the added cost of a university.

If you already have a college degree, there is no need to attend a university with a flight program as you will just be overpaying for a second degree.

If you are already established in a career, my suggestion would be to obtain your private pilot license while still employed. This provides you with an opportunity to test the waters of aviation while maintaining an income.

If you feel the need to obtain a college degree, you will be better served looking for an online program that can be done at your pace, from your couch, rather than attending a university in person. Or, look into local community college programs to obtain your AA before transferring to a bachelor's degree program.

Rather than focusing on which university or flight program will give you a “strong application”, provide more details on how you intend to pay for everything. That is the most challenging aspect of flight training. In the end, no one cares where you obtained your certificates or degree.

JohnBurke

Consider that no airline is going to give you preference based on the brand of school you attended. The degree is a box to check (and in today's environment, an insignificant or invisible one), and little more. Consider too, that few work in their degree field.

A degree and college has nothing to do with flying an airplane. The tired mantra from years ago was that a degree would show that you can stick with something for a few years, which was always a pathetic affirmation. Working for four years shows that you can do the same...say, working in aviation.

The hardest part of flying is paying for it. If you can arrange financing through a college to do your flight training, fair enough, but give careful consideration to how much you'll be paying for years to come.

Finally, consider that while a degree is nearly meaningless in a job quest in aviation, it wasn't always that way, and it won't always be that way. The industry as it stands now is artificial and temporary; don't plan based on the status quo.

Link545

Thank you for the advice! This certainly gives me a clearer picture of how to enter the aviation industry.

What DO employers care about when hiring pilots? How do I make myself more marketable?

Does anyone have a backup plan in case flying doesn't work out? if so, what is it? I know many pilots will have "side hustles" just in case their health disqualifies them from flying or they get laid off etc.

I have thought a bit about how to pay for flight school. Many of the flight schools I've seen are almost as expensive as the university route (depending on which university, of course). so I thought it would be more efficient to go the university route and spend a little more to study finance at the same time. Maybe I am just not looking at the cheapest flight schools.

I am not too interested in the degree as much as I am in the quality of instruction. I really just want to be the best pilot I could be. I would also like to study finance while I am there. If you know of any universities that have good flight programs that would be great! also, how could I make my application to the flight school stand out? I hear there may be competition on the university route.

Thank you for the help!

JohnBurke

Many years ago I sat across the desk from the director of operations, during a job interview. He said I was more than qualified for the job, but did I know the job involved flying professionals with advanced degrees? He saw I didn't have a degree. How could I possibly communicate meaningfully with college-degreed passengers and clients, if I lacked in education? Sorry, but we only hire pilots with degrees.

I grew up flying formation under powerlines, but wasn't qualified for lack of a degree. I read sheakespeare for entertainment, write stories and novels, and manage to get along somehow, and yet...wasn't qualified to converse with a "professional." Would a degree in underwater basketweaving, political science, or the history of wheat have given me the secret sauce to somehow converse with a professional? Would it have helped me fly a tighter instrument approach, a better landing, or have given me a deeper understanding of weather patterns, aerodnamics, or the mechanical function of my aircraft?

What counts for one employer is not necessarily the holy grail to another. In broad terms, flying time is the metric by which pilots are measured, but that's subjective thanks to the many ways time can be logged, and the experience a pilot has. Some employers look at numbers, some at specific experience, and these days, in our temporary hiring bubble, whether one can create fog on a mirror with one's breath. Historically, a degree was what employes used as a discriminator: several applicants all have equal qualifications, but the one with the degree, or in a few cases the higher degree gets the sacred nod. Today, not necessarily. I've run into more and more applicants who lack a degree. Having said that, I don't discourage attaining a degree, and you're right that you may be best off getting training and educaiton in an area that is not aviation. Aviation is a fickle business on the razor's leading edge of economics, and is the first to rattle and tumble when health, economy, companies, shareholders, boards of directors, or the wind blow and decide.

My humble counsel, which is worth far less than the time taken to read it, is to do both: gain experience (which some incorrectly think means flight time), and get your degree. FAA certification comes in many forms, not all of which are pilot qualifications. Aircraft mechanics, flight and ground instructors, flight engineers, etc, are other certifications one can get which enhanceone's overall qualification. Some employers place considerable value on them, others do not. Therein lies the rub. I'm an aircraft mechanic with considerable years and experience in most maintenance areas, all the way up to director of maintenance; some employers find this worth a lot. Others couldn't care less. I have time in four engine piston bombers, flying them down burning canyons like a supercub, and while some employers value this, others actually see it as a detriment. I've instructed in classrooms, simulators, and in large and small aircraft, have been a check airman, and so forth. Some employers consider this that a plus. To others, it's invisible, meritless. That four-engine bomber time, incidentally, is classified the same as a single engine Cessna 150, because it was piston engines (big radial engines, but piston none-the-less). For others, my turboprop time is considered turbine just like my turbojet time. For others, it is not. One can chase this metric or that, one's whole career and still find one doesn't have what it takes. Those in the job market today are happily in the opposite position: ridiculously underqualified pilots are hiring well above their depth into equipment that should have taken them a couple of decades more to get. The wheel rolls on.

Not so many years ago, pilots were buying jobs. Some pilots signed contracts in which they paid for their own training, or in many cases, agreed to pay back their training, if they left within a certain period of time. I believe Republic still has such a scheme going on, with plenty of slathering adherents begging to sign on the dotted line. For many years, Southwest Airlines required applicants to show up with a 737 type rating. I lost track of the legion of instructors and other hopefuls that found a training facility, bought themselves a type rating, and never got hired. One can chase the rainbow for a very long time and never find the gold, or one could trip over the portapotty and fall into the pot without even trying. Go figure.

Your first goal is certification. Following that, your next goal is employment. You will likely flight instruct, which is the quintessential entry-level job, but there are many others, from flying skydivers to towing banners to doing powerline patrol, charter, etc. There's a lot to do in aviation other than fly for airlines. There was a time when diverse experience was valued. Many today are happy to gain as little experience as they can, grab the brass ring, and spend a career with the solitary goal to fly as little as possible while making as much money as possible. Others got into flying because they want to fly and don't lose that. Find your happy place. When I was a kid, my goal was to sample everything in aviation. I won't be meeting that goal, but it hasn't changed. It's just tempered by lifespan. It turns out that life's a lot shorter than some might suspect. I know a little about that. My sole counsel in career trajectory is to follow your dreams, not necessarily a seniority number, and in my opinion it's far better to end one's life with the hindsight that one has truly lived, than to find the exit with no more thought than "I wish I'd had one higher seniority number." That, and it's far better to leave a few behind who wish you were back, than a legion who are glad you're gone.

Good luck.

PRS Guitars

Thats not how it works. If you go the university route, you will pay tuition, room and board, AND the same amount if not more to fly as skipping university. Your flying won't be covered by tuition. oh, and you will be without income, or very little for 4 years, and the hiring will have slowed down by the time you meet the minimum requirements. The airlines do not care one bit where you learned to fly. Currently, you don't need to market yourself at all, just meet the requirements. When hiring slows, you mostly just need more experience, and they like volunteering too.

Backup plan? Maybe whatever you currently do could be the backup plan 🤷‍♂️

Rama

If you don't have any college credits, the university approach will take four years to get your first job flying.
If you go to the quick schools like ATP, Sling, and others, you could be flying in about a year.

onepoint5thumbs

Western won't let you fly if you aren't an Aviation major, and even if you are there's about a yearlong waitlist.

If you want a finance degree go get a finance degree and fly on the weekends, if you want to fly fast go to a puppy mill.

As Miyagi says, "walk in middle, sooner or later, squish like grape"

Sliceback

Quickest path to getting into professional flying is the 'zero to hero' one year programs. Move home to save money and jump on the pony ASAP if you can figure out how to swing the costs.

It's all about getting qualified (Comm/Inst)(+ CFI/MEL?), getting the first flying job and flying your butt off to join the 'race to 1500 hrs', getting to the regional airline and flying your butt off again. In ALL of the steps you need to learn, listen, and get better at your job. Some people get their PPL in 2 months....some people take 4 years. If both progress after their PPL on the same trajectory to the same professional flying job the guy who got his PPL in 2 months while have 4 years more at his career job. In the airline business being hired 4 years earlier or later is a BIG DEAL because of how seniority works.

Going to a university to get your flying qualifications is a terrible idea if you already have a degree.

Want another degree? When you get to a regional airline, or perhaps once you have some CFI experience, you'll be able to enroll in college part-time and work on a degree. My daughter got her masters doing 3 courses every trimester while working full time. Took 2 years?

Have you taken any flights? Grab a CFI and do a couple of flights. You'll probably realize fairly quickly if you like it. Get an FAA 1st class medical to make sure you're not unqualified due to medical reasons.

Keep in mind at some point almost everyone struggles. If even only for a flight or two. Some people struggle longer as it takes them awhile to develope the required skill level. So expect that and power through however after awhile 'powering through' doesn't work if you're just not suited for the job.