Should I go to ATP Flight School?
04-26-2024 | 05:55 AM
#11
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,434
Likes: 124
From: Window seat
- A lot of 0-Hero are “airline linked”. This can mean everything or nothing
- “Might be” indeed. There’s no guarantee and everything is dependent on the market situation.
Might be, should be, could have been…. - There’s always one lucky person that makes all other behave like lemmings.
- Don’t measure your own expectations on someone else’s succes.
Agreed about no guarantees. And expectations based on others success is pointless - what did they do? What are were the job opportunities at the time? How well did they perform?
Plenty of people make questionable decisions. Going to ATP right out of high school isn't a questionable decision. What is your plan at that time? Is it a realistic plan? Is your reasoning realistic? A bunch of us retired airline guys are working together and we collectively just shake our heads at some of the decisions guys trying to get to the majors are doing. "I told him that too" is a common comment. They get to pursue their own paths...what do 4-5 guys that had success in the airline business know???
04-26-2024 | 06:01 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,434
Likes: 124
From: Window seat
I suggest a more aggressive, proactive approach. Talk to the graduates. Go to the school and check it out.
Down the line, no one cares mch where you got your basic pilot certification. They do care if you can fly, and that's on you: skill and proficiency. But the brand where you got your flight training isn't particularly noteworthy, unless it was military training (widely vetted, recognized). Expensive training doesn't add any more weight to the resume. What will propel you forward is a place that's busy, that will hire you to keep instructing, then an industry cycle that offers hiring opportunities. That cycle just ended. It will come around again, though almost certainly nothing like just happened over the last year and a half, or two years. The industry runs in cycles, sometimes called waves, with hiring on one side, and no hiring and furloughs, on the other. Your career becomes a bit like a surfer, waiting for his set; timing plays a big role.
There are no heroes. Most of us are closer to zeros. Some are just paid a little better than others.
Except the wave is continuing...but with smaller waves. The last couple of years was unsustainable. Hiring exceeded growth and retirement demand. Some of it was 'catching up' but when GPD growth is 2% (say 300 pilots a year) and retirements is 700 that's a demand for 1000 pilots. The Big 3 were hiring 2000+. Unsustainable. People can't use that as a baseline for expectations. Who benefited from that cycle? The people who started flight training in 2014-2017 through 2018 (+/-).
04-27-2024 | 11:31 AM
#13
On Reserve
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 38
Likes: 1
Don't!
Hi,
ATP absolutely screwed over my son.
PM me and I will give you the details if you are interested.
I've heard good things from some of the guys I fly with about McAir near Denver.
I also have a family friend who is currently going through Sling Academy and has only good things to say.
Best of luck in your decision!
QUOTE=2Lazy4aName;3795963]I am a high school senior (18 years old) in the Houston area, and I will be getting my PPL in a month or so. I was thinking of ATP because the zero to hero seems appealing. I know I am passionate about flying, but I’ve read a lot of bad reviews for ATP. Is it really that bad? And if so, are there other fast schools in the area that aren’t bad?[/QUOTE]
ATP absolutely screwed over my son.
PM me and I will give you the details if you are interested.
I've heard good things from some of the guys I fly with about McAir near Denver.
I also have a family friend who is currently going through Sling Academy and has only good things to say.
Best of luck in your decision!
QUOTE=2Lazy4aName;3795963]I am a high school senior (18 years old) in the Houston area, and I will be getting my PPL in a month or so. I was thinking of ATP because the zero to hero seems appealing. I know I am passionate about flying, but I’ve read a lot of bad reviews for ATP. Is it really that bad? And if so, are there other fast schools in the area that aren’t bad?[/QUOTE]
05-12-2024 | 04:21 PM
#15
New Hire
Joined: May 2024
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
I recently just got my PPL and am happy I went part 61 route. Initially was leaning towards ATP but figured getting my private through a local part 61 was best for me. Gave me a chance to see if this is really what I want to do for a career without taking out a large loan.
Now that I got my private I am now looking at accelerated 141 programs to go to to get my training done in a reasonable amount of time.
Now that I got my private I am now looking at accelerated 141 programs to go to to get my training done in a reasonable amount of time.
Last edited by directtolav; 05-12-2024 at 04:25 PM. Reason: expand on my initial thoughts
05-28-2024 | 09:08 AM
#16
On Reserve
Joined: May 2024
Posts: 39
Likes: 3
From: C208
I got my PPL at a mom and pop’s flight school, then went through ATP’s “credit private” program from Mar 2022-Oct 2022. I turned around and instructed at the same ATP location from Oct 2022-Mar 2024. I’ve got a lot of opinions and there are a lot of variables that will determine whether you have a successful time at ATP or a horror story. I will say in general, our most successful students were usually in their mid-20s. The ones that had just come out of college and decided to jump into aviation. But there were also exceptions.
Your flying skills will be developed well, but I think I saw maybe 25% of the students who joined the program actually leave successfully with all 7 ratings. I would say around 70% left with at least Instrument Commercial Multi and Single, but no instructor ratings, and then about 5% washed out entirely with nothing but debt. Bottom line, If you start to struggle at ATP, you’re more than likely going to be left in the dust. It requires a lot of self-determination and self-study and the ability to hold yourself accountable for the knowledge that you need to be building along the way. ATP doesn’t really teach you ground knowledge even though they claim to.
My personal experience was that I absolutely loved my time there as a student (I started at 26 y/o). My instructors were cool, I worked my tail off, and it was the first time in my life where every day that I woke up, I went and did something in aviation surrounded by other student pilots, mechanics, airport employees, charter pilots, DPEs, etc. and it provided an atmosphere that motivated me. A lot of Part 61 schools don’t really have an atmosphere whatsoever. You show up, fly, then go home. After the program, however, I did not in any way enjoy working for ATP, but that’s a whole different topic and too long to post about.
Your flying skills will be developed well, but I think I saw maybe 25% of the students who joined the program actually leave successfully with all 7 ratings. I would say around 70% left with at least Instrument Commercial Multi and Single, but no instructor ratings, and then about 5% washed out entirely with nothing but debt. Bottom line, If you start to struggle at ATP, you’re more than likely going to be left in the dust. It requires a lot of self-determination and self-study and the ability to hold yourself accountable for the knowledge that you need to be building along the way. ATP doesn’t really teach you ground knowledge even though they claim to.
My personal experience was that I absolutely loved my time there as a student (I started at 26 y/o). My instructors were cool, I worked my tail off, and it was the first time in my life where every day that I woke up, I went and did something in aviation surrounded by other student pilots, mechanics, airport employees, charter pilots, DPEs, etc. and it provided an atmosphere that motivated me. A lot of Part 61 schools don’t really have an atmosphere whatsoever. You show up, fly, then go home. After the program, however, I did not in any way enjoy working for ATP, but that’s a whole different topic and too long to post about.
06-26-2024 | 12:44 PM
#17
New Hire
Joined: Jun 2024
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
You could go.
"Should" is subjective, and only you can decide that.
Flight schools are in the business of training, and their money is made by recruiting students who pay them to train. Flight schools tend to make a lot of promises about what you might do after that training, but that's not really their concern. Their concern is reeling you in and taking your money. They do that very well.
I went to an ag school as a teen. It promised job placement after, which was a crucial part of the reason I chose that school. I was there six months, and at the conclusion, saw a number of other students come and go. Not one of them got a job. At the conclusion of my training, I was told that I needed a car (didn't have one), and that I'd need to start driving, and to ask every operator I encountered, for a job. Eventually someone would hire me, I was told. I had a few dollars left over, bought a car for four hundred fifty bucks, and something to eat. I filled the gas tank, began driving, and hit every operator I could find. Eventually I got two flat tires in a small town in Kansas, ran out of gas and had a choice; buy alittle more gas or get something to eat. The operator in that town hired me. I was the only one hired out of all the students to come through while I was there. Job placement, my ass.
That wasn't ATP flight school; it was an agricultural (crop dusting) school (long gone, proprietor dead). It does illustrate, however, the difference between what may be offered, and what may be received. I will add that the six months at that school were not a pleasant experience, and are fodder for their own book.
If you're hearing negative things about ATP (et al), are you hoping that a query to a forum like this will dispel that negative reputation, and justify going to the school? I'm only asking because as a teen, that's what I did. In my case, I let a fortune cookie rule the day. I suggest a more aggressive, proactive approach. Talk to the graduates. Go to the school and check it out.
Down the line, no one cares mch where you got your basic pilot certification. They do care if you can fly, and that's on you: skill and proficiency. But the brand where you got your flight training isn't particularly noteworthy, unless it was military training (widely vetted, recognized). Expensive training doesn't add any more weight to the resume. What will propel you forward is a place that's busy, that will hire you to keep instructing, then an industry cycle that offers hiring opportunities. That cycle just ended. It will come around again, though almost certainly nothing like just happened over the last year and a half, or two years. The industry runs in cycles, sometimes called waves, with hiring on one side, and no hiring and furloughs, on the other. Your career becomes a bit like a surfer, waiting for his set; timing plays a big role.
There are no heroes. Most of us are closer to zeros. Some are just paid a little better than others.
"Should" is subjective, and only you can decide that.
Flight schools are in the business of training, and their money is made by recruiting students who pay them to train. Flight schools tend to make a lot of promises about what you might do after that training, but that's not really their concern. Their concern is reeling you in and taking your money. They do that very well.
I went to an ag school as a teen. It promised job placement after, which was a crucial part of the reason I chose that school. I was there six months, and at the conclusion, saw a number of other students come and go. Not one of them got a job. At the conclusion of my training, I was told that I needed a car (didn't have one), and that I'd need to start driving, and to ask every operator I encountered, for a job. Eventually someone would hire me, I was told. I had a few dollars left over, bought a car for four hundred fifty bucks, and something to eat. I filled the gas tank, began driving, and hit every operator I could find. Eventually I got two flat tires in a small town in Kansas, ran out of gas and had a choice; buy alittle more gas or get something to eat. The operator in that town hired me. I was the only one hired out of all the students to come through while I was there. Job placement, my ass.
That wasn't ATP flight school; it was an agricultural (crop dusting) school (long gone, proprietor dead). It does illustrate, however, the difference between what may be offered, and what may be received. I will add that the six months at that school were not a pleasant experience, and are fodder for their own book.
If you're hearing negative things about ATP (et al), are you hoping that a query to a forum like this will dispel that negative reputation, and justify going to the school? I'm only asking because as a teen, that's what I did. In my case, I let a fortune cookie rule the day. I suggest a more aggressive, proactive approach. Talk to the graduates. Go to the school and check it out.
Down the line, no one cares mch where you got your basic pilot certification. They do care if you can fly, and that's on you: skill and proficiency. But the brand where you got your flight training isn't particularly noteworthy, unless it was military training (widely vetted, recognized). Expensive training doesn't add any more weight to the resume. What will propel you forward is a place that's busy, that will hire you to keep instructing, then an industry cycle that offers hiring opportunities. That cycle just ended. It will come around again, though almost certainly nothing like just happened over the last year and a half, or two years. The industry runs in cycles, sometimes called waves, with hiring on one side, and no hiring and furloughs, on the other. Your career becomes a bit like a surfer, waiting for his set; timing plays a big role.
There are no heroes. Most of us are closer to zeros. Some are just paid a little better than others.
I hit 1500 next week with an airline lined up in the Fall(23 months start to finish from 0 time) and was in the position you're currently in (out of high school, 18). PM if you want to call, I've operated in CXO and EFD (the two houston locations) and out of the 50 something I've visited in the country those are up there as some of my favorites (every training center has their own culture, some great, some I would go to another school before attending that) I'm happy to give an objective opinion, ATP is a business not a family. For me it served its purpose nothing more nothing less.
08-08-2024 | 04:59 AM
#18
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 72
Likes: 14
Be very careful when considering ATP. Your experience will depend on which location you choose. My son is finishing up the Zero to Hero program at a different academy, but we thoroughly researched ATP. The one near us has a pretty horrible reputation. Miking students for more and more money, sending people to checkrides when they weren't ready, inflexiblity with scheduling, kicking you out if thy don't think you're progressing fast enough, etc. I talked with several pilots that went through that paticular school and every single one of them reccomended avoiding it. On the other hand, one of my son's friends from high school went to ATP somewhere on the west coast and had a great experience. All the way through to CFI in about 8 months. Couldn't be happier. Just do your research on whichever facility you're considering.
08-10-2024 | 12:07 PM
#19
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Joined: Aug 2011
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I am a high school senior (18 years old) in the Houston area, and I will be getting my PPL in a month or so. I was thinking of ATP because the zero to hero seems appealing. I know I am passionate about flying, but I’ve read a lot of bad reviews for ATP. Is it really that bad? And if so, are there other fast schools in the area that aren’t bad?
It depends. I would at least take some intro flights or a couple lessons see if flying is really for you. I have a buddy who went to ATP and couldn't find a job for years. Left Aviation to do other jobs and eventually got back in. He is now at a Major. I Have another buddy who similar to your situation, went straight to flight school after high school at 18. A popular Pilot Mill school in south Florida, where he got all his ratings and is now also at a major without a college degree. Point of all of this is that it all depends on "you". Where you end up, and the sucess you make out of anything depends on what you put into it. There are a dozen better options than ATP that is for sure. And no, you don't need college degree to have a Pilot career. It just might take longer working at a regional or LCC for a while but it's doable. If I were 18 again, I would do a community college with flight training included. 2 years of that and get associates degree with Commercial Pilot certificarte and optional CFI. Then go work as a CFI, Survey Pilot, or skydive jump Pilot till around 1200. At 1200 hours go fly frieght at a part 135 cargo company. And at 1500 hours go to a regional. From there upgrade and/or go to an LCC or ACMI cargo outfit. Build around 3000 hours total with 500-1000 TPIC and you will be a good candiate for a Major/Legacy even without a degree. While doing those steps, take online classes to finish the degree online. Networking can also increase your odds of making it. I should take you around 6 years and a buck fifty. good luck.
08-07-2025 | 04:10 PM
#20
New Hire
Joined: Aug 2025
Posts: 1
Likes: 1
ATP terrible, total false advertising
My son recently finished ATP school, thank God. That was the most harrowing experience he has ever experienced. The people who run the school do not give a diddly squat about their students. The students are just numbers. They will kick you out at the drop of a hat. My son was super lucky to have been able to finish. HOWEVER . . . their false advertising about being an instructor after finishing the school is super MISLEADING. It's not like part of the program . . . they have to have job openings and since there are hundreds upon hundreds of students, there aren't instructor job openings very often! So my son is stuck, and so are a whole bunch of other students he met in the school. They can't find instructor jobs that they need in order to gain the flight hours required for a commercial position. They advertise that you can finish the school in about 9 months or less. BS!!! It took my son 1.5 years to finish because of constant delays with weather AND planes needing maintenance/repairs. PLUS, the airline programs ATP promises you'll be able to enroll in is a damn joke. My son as well as many other students were not able to join an airline's program because they're not hiring anymore! This school is freaking expensive as hell and ATP doesn't give a crap if you aren't able to join an airline program or even get an instructor job like they advertise. I wish to God he would have gone to a different flight school. I gotta pray hard for him every day for a door to open for him just to get his required hours. Many of the other flight schools won't even hire you as an instructor if you went to ATP! What a big mistake we made in choosing this school, and now we're $140,000 in debt!!! Don't do it! Go elsewhere because your life depends on it! There are many lawsuits against this company because of their false advertising and other dishonest practices.
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