professors and educators
12-18-2007, 03:39 PM
#1
just enjoying the view.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Boeing 717 FO
Posts: 114
professors and educators
Any professors or educacators that are listening and would like to give me a little life story or advice as to how to land a college professor job I would appreciate it. Any masters degrees that would be suggested are also welcome.
12-18-2007, 09:14 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: ATR-72 FO
Posts: 297
MTSU is looking for some people. They like masters degrees in aviation education and a background in aviation is always good of course, not sure if it's a requirement or not. I'm not in the education field, just my 2/100ths of a dollar from going to school there.
12-19-2007, 02:21 AM
#3
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I assume you want to be a professor and you are not just talking about landing a ground instructor job or a temporary contract.
Professors come in three ranks- assistant professor (entry level), associate (teaching professor not tenured), and tenured full professor (highest position, cannot be fired).
Talk to the professors in person or by phone or email that teach the topic you want teach, and ask what their background is. I am sure they will be happy to talk to you.
Ask for their vitas. There may be a public way to access vitas online or through a subscription database at an academic library, but most of them will put it on their personal website. A vita tells the whole story about their academic background.
You should ask them what their bachelors, masters if they have one, and PhD degree fields were if they have one. You might be surprised to find that it is not in what you thought. For example, in the aerospace school I attended they had civil engineering PhD's (CEs) staffing structures. In propulsion they had mechanical engineers (MEs). In controls they had electrical engineers (EEs). None of the staff had an aeronautical engineering (AE) degree, although the fields they had degrees were all engineering fields.
In some fields you do not need a PhD to reach full professor. My aircraft design professor in AE school did not, he had a masters in ME and a long history of research in ship and aircraft design, but no PhD. In his case he was at the forefront of his field and was cited in textbooks on aerodynamics. Each field has a "terminal degree", and while usually it is the PhD- Doctor of Philosophy is what this stands for, it is a traditional title and does not have anything to do with philosophy- sometimes it is a masters degree.
Colleges are loosely categorized as research institutions and teaching institutions. If you want to publish research and push the forefront, you would not look at the same colleges as if you just wanted to teach and then go home at 5 o'clock.
Another suggestion is to look up your job in the Occupational Outlook Handbook which is available online here.
Professors come in three ranks- assistant professor (entry level), associate (teaching professor not tenured), and tenured full professor (highest position, cannot be fired).
Talk to the professors in person or by phone or email that teach the topic you want teach, and ask what their background is. I am sure they will be happy to talk to you.
Ask for their vitas. There may be a public way to access vitas online or through a subscription database at an academic library, but most of them will put it on their personal website. A vita tells the whole story about their academic background.
You should ask them what their bachelors, masters if they have one, and PhD degree fields were if they have one. You might be surprised to find that it is not in what you thought. For example, in the aerospace school I attended they had civil engineering PhD's (CEs) staffing structures. In propulsion they had mechanical engineers (MEs). In controls they had electrical engineers (EEs). None of the staff had an aeronautical engineering (AE) degree, although the fields they had degrees were all engineering fields.
In some fields you do not need a PhD to reach full professor. My aircraft design professor in AE school did not, he had a masters in ME and a long history of research in ship and aircraft design, but no PhD. In his case he was at the forefront of his field and was cited in textbooks on aerodynamics. Each field has a "terminal degree", and while usually it is the PhD- Doctor of Philosophy is what this stands for, it is a traditional title and does not have anything to do with philosophy- sometimes it is a masters degree.
Colleges are loosely categorized as research institutions and teaching institutions. If you want to publish research and push the forefront, you would not look at the same colleges as if you just wanted to teach and then go home at 5 o'clock.
Another suggestion is to look up your job in the Occupational Outlook Handbook which is available online here.
Last edited by Cubdriver; 12-19-2007 at 03:08 PM.
12-19-2007, 09:52 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Center seat, doing loops to music
Posts: 828
The short and skinny for aviation departments is you definitively need a Masters, a PhD is not required. For classical departments like engineering, brother you better have a long list of research projects and a comprehensive plan on how you're going to bring research grants to the institution if you were hired. Long gone are the days of getting a 4-year college professor job because you want to teach and your resume consists primarily of that intent. It's just not economically the main interest for universities anymore (yikes! I know). Think of graduate students (TAs and RAs alike) like the regional pilots of academia. Starving artists chasing the dissapearing carrot that is a tenured 4-year college prof job, and the old man won't let go of the job or die. Supply grossly exceeds demand for 4-year college prof. jobs by the way. I would know, I have a Masters in Aero. Engineering and all my colleagues (mostly international students) had "getting a prof. job" as their plan A-Z of how they were going to put food on the table after graduation. Most are doing post-docs well into their 30s at pay of about 25-30K/year, of course they refuse to work a factory job that pays more and has benefits because "it's the principle of it". Yea good luck with that....
The pay for a starting assistant proffesor is pretty lowly (40-50K) from those coming from other careers, considering it will take you more than a decade to attain the degrees and research experience to maybe get you that job, so there's a time value of money, and experience-years working a more lucrative job in the same time span issue there, big time. Most of the assitant job openings are non-tenure track lately, meaning they are not meant to be EVER considered for tenure. Lots of adjunct positions (the fourth kind of proffesorship and the most widespread; the part-time crowd, or full-time without promise of next semester) abound. Best bet for someone wanting to teach is community colleges. Pay is on the 30s to begin, and may top out at 60K depending on locality. You will never hit six figures under the 'teaching track' nowadays, guaranteed. Reserach is unfortunately the name of the game, so if you're not into that (I wasn't) then you'll be dissapointed.
From my research of flight departments, their professors are mostly fed up airline guys who were able (smart enough to know better?) to transition to a more stable employment. These guys are older though and have attained tenure, so as a young guy (under 30) good luck being given serious consideration. Just keeping it honest from someone who was on both sides of the classroom (and I think I went through grad school at cubdriver's school if the colors on that King Air avatar are right).
The pay for a starting assistant proffesor is pretty lowly (40-50K) from those coming from other careers, considering it will take you more than a decade to attain the degrees and research experience to maybe get you that job, so there's a time value of money, and experience-years working a more lucrative job in the same time span issue there, big time. Most of the assitant job openings are non-tenure track lately, meaning they are not meant to be EVER considered for tenure. Lots of adjunct positions (the fourth kind of proffesorship and the most widespread; the part-time crowd, or full-time without promise of next semester) abound. Best bet for someone wanting to teach is community colleges. Pay is on the 30s to begin, and may top out at 60K depending on locality. You will never hit six figures under the 'teaching track' nowadays, guaranteed. Reserach is unfortunately the name of the game, so if you're not into that (I wasn't) then you'll be dissapointed.
From my research of flight departments, their professors are mostly fed up airline guys who were able (smart enough to know better?) to transition to a more stable employment. These guys are older though and have attained tenure, so as a young guy (under 30) good luck being given serious consideration. Just keeping it honest from someone who was on both sides of the classroom (and I think I went through grad school at cubdriver's school if the colors on that King Air avatar are right).
12-19-2007, 02:54 PM
#5
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
Correct, well done. And welcome to this little part of the aerospace world. I was tempted to go for my masters and wish I had done it sometimes, but it was time for me to move along plus I got a nice job working for an aircraft maker in Wichita. Grad students have it worse than regional first officers. They not only don't get paid much they usually accrue more debt. Hats off to you for making it through that degree, it's quite a gauntlet. I don't blame you for wanting out of academics, I couldn't take much more than the undergrad part although it was probably the sweetest time of my life.
As for airline flying I would have already done it, but with student loans to manage an FO's salary wouldn't cut it. My plan now is to either finish my loans off and I am more than half way done on that now, and go fly, or go into one of the flight departments where I work. Demo pilots and flight test pilots are pretty happy looking people.
As for airline flying I would have already done it, but with student loans to manage an FO's salary wouldn't cut it. My plan now is to either finish my loans off and I am more than half way done on that now, and go fly, or go into one of the flight departments where I work. Demo pilots and flight test pilots are pretty happy looking people.
Last edited by Cubdriver; 12-20-2007 at 02:21 PM.
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