Help with Holds
07-17-2008, 08:45 PM
#11
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 31
Just Teardrop EVERY hold until you finally get it. The TD works every time, and nothing says you can't do it.
Technique:
I tell students to hold up their right hand over the RMI for a right hand hold (or their left hand for a left hand hold). If the inbound course appears above the meat of your palm it is a Teardrop, if your palm covers the inbound course it is a direct entry.........and NEVER NEVER do a parallel, because you'll just F it up. (This appears in a different form in the AIM as a pie wedge)
I had to instruct this during my own PC at the airline to my SIM partner. The instructor gave me 5 minutes to save his career. Both of them laughed when my idea worked.
Technique:
I tell students to hold up their right hand over the RMI for a right hand hold (or their left hand for a left hand hold). If the inbound course appears above the meat of your palm it is a Teardrop, if your palm covers the inbound course it is a direct entry.........and NEVER NEVER do a parallel, because you'll just F it up. (This appears in a different form in the AIM as a pie wedge)
I had to instruct this during my own PC at the airline to my SIM partner. The instructor gave me 5 minutes to save his career. Both of them laughed when my idea worked.
07-17-2008, 08:53 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: A320/321 FO
Posts: 1,114
Originally Posted by the King
I think he's referring to the MAP hold at LAFAL. The hold at CURUG is the alternate missed hold.
Thanks
Wow
07-28-2008, 11:16 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,213
Originally Posted by cyrcadian
Here is how I used to teach it. This is a sure fire way to get the correct entry without drawing the hold. Although I still recommend drawing the hold just to get a good visual of what you are doing.
The idea behind this is to section off the heading indicator into the 3 different entry areas.
1. Fly direct to the fix. This WILL NOT work if you do not fly to the fix.
2. Determine left or right turns.
3. Place your thumb on the heading indicator next to your current heading covering approximately 30 degrees.
example: Right turn hold place thumb on the right side of your current heading on the heading indicator. Left turn hold place your thumb to the left of your current heading on the heading indicator.
4. Use this to draw an imaginary line diagonally across the heading indicator.
5. There will always be another imaginary line drawn from the top to the bottom of the heading indicator.
6. You now have sectioned off the 3 general areas to determine hold entry: Direct, parallel and teardrop. Your thumb is the 30 degree teardrop section, below the diagonal line is the direct section and the remaining 150 is the parallel section.
7. Locate your inbound leg on the heading indicator.
8. Where ever the inbound leg falls, that is your entry.
I know it may sound complicated just reading it, but trust me, I have never had a student fail hold entries after they learned this method.
PM me if you have questions. Also, try this website to test my process.
Holding Quiz
The idea behind this is to section off the heading indicator into the 3 different entry areas.
1. Fly direct to the fix. This WILL NOT work if you do not fly to the fix.
2. Determine left or right turns.
3. Place your thumb on the heading indicator next to your current heading covering approximately 30 degrees.
example: Right turn hold place thumb on the right side of your current heading on the heading indicator. Left turn hold place your thumb to the left of your current heading on the heading indicator.
4. Use this to draw an imaginary line diagonally across the heading indicator.
5. There will always be another imaginary line drawn from the top to the bottom of the heading indicator.
6. You now have sectioned off the 3 general areas to determine hold entry: Direct, parallel and teardrop. Your thumb is the 30 degree teardrop section, below the diagonal line is the direct section and the remaining 150 is the parallel section.
7. Locate your inbound leg on the heading indicator.
8. Where ever the inbound leg falls, that is your entry.
I know it may sound complicated just reading it, but trust me, I have never had a student fail hold entries after they learned this method.
PM me if you have questions. Also, try this website to test my process.
Holding Quiz
07-28-2008, 11:53 AM
#15
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: CFI, CFII, MEI
Posts: 6
Check out this website: Pilot's Web The Aviators' Journal - Holding Patterns thats how i was taught and thats how i teach my students to visualize there hold entries. pm for any questions.
07-28-2008, 12:05 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: 737
Posts: 268
I also teach the thumb method.
1. Get your clearance.
ex. "Hold NW on the 305 degree radial, left turns, expect further clearance in 20 minutes."
2. Determine Outbound Heading. I think the easiest way to do this is to look at the holding clearance. If the direction of the hold, "NW," is close in line with the holding radial, "305," then the 305 will be the outbound. As in, 305 degrees is a NW heading, therefore it's the outbound. Use that Holding Quiz crycadian provided to practice this as well. (Thanks BTW, I have that bookmarked now).
3. On the DG, place your left thumb on the left side for left turns or place your right thumb on the right side for right turns. This allows you to divide the DG (or HSI) into sections. There will be a line drawn from the top of your thumb through the airplane in the center (So it will be slanted) [See Picture]. The "Teardrop" section will always be next to your Thumb. Think T for Teardrop, T for Thumb. Also, this is assuming you are going direct to the fix at this point.
4. Find Outbound Heading and determine which section it is in, that'll be your entry.
Then you can figure out what you'll do next upon reaching the holding fix as far as the entry procedure is concerned.
Direct - Turn to the Outbound heading.
For Parallel and Teardrop, think POTS for what direction of turn you'll do after one minute past the fix, Parallel Opposite, Teardrop Same. For Parallel, turn opposite the holding turns. In this case, we are left turns so after one minute on a parallel entry, turn right to intercept.
Parallel - Fly outbound on the holding course for one minute, then turn towards the holding side to intercept the holding course to the fix (I use a 45-degree intercept).
Teardrop - Fly outbound on a heading that is 30 degrees towards the holding side then turn to intercept the radial course to the fix. POTS, teardrop same, so the turn to intercept is the same as the turns in the hold, this case, left. Also, the whole 30 degree heading can be confusing, but you can use TLARS to help calculate that heading. Teardrop - Left Add, Right Subtract. If the turn in the hold is left, add 30 degrees to the outbound heading. If the turns are right, subtract 30 degrees from the outbound heading. This will be the heading to fly for one minute. Hence why finding the outbound heading is so important.
Also, this is all assuming 1 minute legs.
Hope this helps, and remember, flying instruments is fun, so make it fun. Good Luck!
EDIT: Can we attach photos on here? I can't seem to find an attatchment thingy.
1. Get your clearance.
ex. "Hold NW on the 305 degree radial, left turns, expect further clearance in 20 minutes."
2. Determine Outbound Heading. I think the easiest way to do this is to look at the holding clearance. If the direction of the hold, "NW," is close in line with the holding radial, "305," then the 305 will be the outbound. As in, 305 degrees is a NW heading, therefore it's the outbound. Use that Holding Quiz crycadian provided to practice this as well. (Thanks BTW, I have that bookmarked now).
3. On the DG, place your left thumb on the left side for left turns or place your right thumb on the right side for right turns. This allows you to divide the DG (or HSI) into sections. There will be a line drawn from the top of your thumb through the airplane in the center (So it will be slanted) [See Picture]. The "Teardrop" section will always be next to your Thumb. Think T for Teardrop, T for Thumb. Also, this is assuming you are going direct to the fix at this point.
4. Find Outbound Heading and determine which section it is in, that'll be your entry.
Then you can figure out what you'll do next upon reaching the holding fix as far as the entry procedure is concerned.
Direct - Turn to the Outbound heading.
For Parallel and Teardrop, think POTS for what direction of turn you'll do after one minute past the fix, Parallel Opposite, Teardrop Same. For Parallel, turn opposite the holding turns. In this case, we are left turns so after one minute on a parallel entry, turn right to intercept.
Parallel - Fly outbound on the holding course for one minute, then turn towards the holding side to intercept the holding course to the fix (I use a 45-degree intercept).
Teardrop - Fly outbound on a heading that is 30 degrees towards the holding side then turn to intercept the radial course to the fix. POTS, teardrop same, so the turn to intercept is the same as the turns in the hold, this case, left. Also, the whole 30 degree heading can be confusing, but you can use TLARS to help calculate that heading. Teardrop - Left Add, Right Subtract. If the turn in the hold is left, add 30 degrees to the outbound heading. If the turns are right, subtract 30 degrees from the outbound heading. This will be the heading to fly for one minute. Hence why finding the outbound heading is so important.
Also, this is all assuming 1 minute legs.
Hope this helps, and remember, flying instruments is fun, so make it fun. Good Luck!
EDIT: Can we attach photos on here? I can't seem to find an attatchment thingy.
Last edited by inky13; 07-28-2008 at 12:11 PM.
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