kid needs advice
 

im a high school senior, and i have dreamed to fly the day i first saw the chicago air and water show when i was 10. Ive been accepted to Florida Tech, University of Dubuque, and Lewis University. As of today, Ive recieved a 10,000 grant from FIT (florida tech), a 7,000 per year university of dubuque scholarship, and a currently unknown scholarship amount from Lewis University. Due to my familys poor income and financial standing, i will be paying my way through college. My dilemna is, well i really really want to go to FIT. I visited the ERAU, Arizona State, Lewis, Dubuque, Purdue, Southern Illinois, and none of them impressed me more than FIT did. That place is something else, and i would recommend it to anyone as the top aviation program out there (at least from my perspective). However, due to my familys finances, it will be difficult to attend FIT, and a lot of schools for that matter. my questions are . . .

1) Would you recommend taking out loans up the wazoo (talking above 90,000) and paying it off? any life stories or tips people want to share on that?

2) Does anyone know of any scholarships out there besides the well known ones (any under-the-radar scholarships)?

3) Does anyone have any other ideas on how to afford school?

thanks guys!! (please dont turn this into a college bashing argument thanks!)

1. NO!

2. sorry, no

3. I don't know how much the other schools cost but DO NOT PAY $420 + a credit hour to go to Lewis! I would also tend to advise you to get a degree in something OTHER than aviation because once you get out of school you will be worrying about how to eat when you are a CFI....regional pilot....first year at a major....PLUS how to repay all the school loans you took out. Get the ratings on the side.

Good Luck!

Go to a local accredited state university, major in something aside from aviation, fly at your local FBO, save $20k+

If you like it there and you think it is the place for you. Then go.

Take out the loans. Now I would however strongly consider majoring in something other than aviation or minor in bussiness or IT or something just to have a solid plan B.

my minor would be in bussiness you bet, im takin aviation management with minors in education and bussiness, figure i have a few roads to go with those.

Id say go for it. There are a lot of penny pinchers on these board (no offence) But that just comes from being a poor pilot. I should know I am one.

I got an aviation degree and do I regret it? No. When I was in your same position senior year of high school a lot of the instructors told me to major in something other than aviation as a backup plan; something useful, like finace. Then I talked to someone who hires and fires people for a large corporation. He told me that after a couple years of being out of college that if a person has no real world experience in that field, that he consideres the degree obsolete. One of my dad's clients who holds a similar position told him the same thing. So this meant to me that if I majored in finance and CFIed for a while then went on to a regional, then lost my medical, that I would be in the exact same place as I would be if I majored in aviation or history or dance.

The thing I do regret is spending so much money to get my degree. Most guys on here will tell you to go to a state school. I couldn't agree more. Don't get too far in debt because once you're a CFI, it starts to really hurt.


And one more thing, I was close friends with two guys who went more than 100K into debt at Embry-Riddle. Both of them took jobs outside of aviation after they graduated in order to pay off their loans, although one of them also CFIed part time.

Have you considered the military? Great training, good pay, lots of resposibility, awesome aircraft. I went into the Navy with about 700 hours with a career in mind but changed my mind after 8 years and got out. I then went into the Navy Reserve an flew there while persueing the airline career.
2 Mil.+ flight training and no debt. It worked for me. No regrets. Good luck.

Uh.......I don't agree.

Get a degree in something specific that you can supplement your income from the get go.

SWA Capt has a good idea too.

Good questions awesomesauce17! Unfortunately, posting them on this or any other BB site will only confuse you when you read the answers posted. You will get opinions from one extreme to the other...and this from complete strangers who think they know all the answers. I understand (I think) what you are sincerely asking for but in my humble opinion (which may be about as valuable as anyone elses...i.e. squat!), I would only trust the opinions of my family, friends, and others that know me very well. These are the people that can truly give you an honest answer that is not biased with all the whinning that goes on on these sites. So that is my opinion, which to you, is coming from a complete stranger...see what I mean? Confusing. Im sure you will find the answers you are looking for and above all, have fun flying! CTL

Just for clarification.....

The answers I posted are based on my experience and the route that has worked for me.

Also, about 12 years ago I was in the same boat you are in. If I didn't listen to my CFI who told me not to go to Embry Riddle, I would be in a lot of debt right now.

I would recommend NOT paying huge money and going into deep debt for a school unless it is Ivy League, Stanford, Berkely. In that case the name-brand degree will pay for itself.

Military Options:

2) ROTC or Academy scholarship. If you can't get it out of HS, go to your local state school, get good grades your first semester, and you will likely get some kind of scholarshipm at that point.

) Enlist for a few years to earn GI Bill. This will pay for college and/or 50% of your flight training.

2) Enlist as a means of earning a ROTC or Academy Slot. They have slots set aside for enlisted folk, and these slots are under-utilized.

well id like to say thanks for everyone so far. really good stuff here. few points here . . . .

1) Ive spoken to my relatives and pretty much everyone i know, and they are out of ideas. to clarify a bit, my family is broke, and the relatives are payin all the money to keep us a float. There advice ranges from staying in town and help the family to go out of the country. id much prefer to go to college. thanks for the point though about listenin to the family.

2) Ive researched the military route, and i would do it except i have a real life example why not to do it. When my cousins were going to college, they did the air force rotc, and joined it. the 8 year gig thing. well, the army took them out of air force rotc, and now they are foot soldiers in iraq, on the front not my idea of the air force. i wont get into how i feel about the war.

3) Thank you for the point about ERAU guys taking on 100G in loans. its a good feeling to know that it is possible.

thank you all for your opinoins, i really appreciate them.

Do you have any interests outside of aviation that you could major in. While an aviation degree isn't a total waste of time, I don't believe it's as good as a second career/fall back major. When I was your age, I was interested in nothing else besides aviation so I went to Riddle. I consider that one of the biggest mistakes I made. Luckily, I made some good choices, too. Anyhow, if you could go to a cheap, in state, school and major in something outside of aviation that interests you, that would be best. You could work part time to pay for flying lessons.

Hey I'm a junior college student, trying to get my ratings. DONT go into college to study aviation. Students change their majors in college like they change their underwear. So far college has been a roler coaster for me. It's almost guaranteed that you will change your major in college atleast once. Second of all it's very probable that you will drop out after first year of college, some colleges have a drop our rate of first year students as much as 75% It happened to me and friends I knew. Not all of them failed though, they just moved to different colleges. I just went down to community college then transfered back to the Major leagues after getting my grades and credits up.

It's very easy to sit and say wow mother I'm going to learn Aviation Mangement, then I'm going to minor in Business. Untill you actually get to class and find that it's not interesting at all. Colleges know this. I've changed my major 3 times now patly because colleges encourage you to change majors and it's very easy to change majors. Originaly aviation management, that only lasted one semester. VERY BORING, I didn't care about running an airport or an FBO, I just want to FLY!! Then Geography now Business. I think people put so much importance in college, airlines don't care where you go for college as long as you have some kind of degree.

Go to your local college, even better to your local community college then transfer to your local university and SAVE YOUR MONEY for flight training, your gonna need every penny. My mistake was that I didn't go to the local community college first instead I went to college directly and wasted money the first few years for the same education. I thank Jesus or God or who ever, that I have parents who care and helped me through the crucial time between High School and College. Some kick their kids out of the house at 18 but unfortunately, that's when you really need your parents more than any other time in your life. Good Luck with your family they must be proud of you.

thanks man

I totally disagree. I went to a State College to obtain my aviation degree and ratings and it was the best experience of my life. Not only did I learn things in college I would have never learned at some "specialty school" but I learned life experience as well. I worked my butt off going to college full time and working full time to support myself and pay for my tuition and ratings. Not only did I graduate in 2 years instead of four but I now have all my ratings including CFI, CFII, and MEI and I am debt free. I instructed for a year and now I am getting ready to apply at a regional that I highly respect and have a good relationship with through networking and a little hard work. I just wanted to give you an example of how it is possible to work hard to get where you want and not take out $100+ in loans.

nightflyer which state school?

Utah Valley State College in Orem, Utah. That is where i instruct right now as well. They have 4 aviation degrees, own all there own planes, and run a good program.

il look into it a bit. i have until may 1st to decide what i want to do. im hoping to hear from some scholarship houses before then, see how much more free money is coming my way.

Go to www.flyuvsc.com. They also have a first rate financial aid department. I paid for most of my schooling but they also helped me find thousand's in aid through scholarships and grants. That was all money that I will never have to pay back. It's worth looking into.

Uvsc
 

UVSC online is ran pretty well. The flight school in Provo could use a little help.

Did you go to UVSC in Provo Otter?

I'm not trying to rip on you here but every single friend I have that has an aviation degree says how lucky I am to have a degree in something else. I have had ONE friend who did not think his aviation degree was a waste. He said this before 9/11 when he thought he was going to United thanks to his internship. Now, after he was furloughed and crapping his pants about how he was going to pay his mortgage, he tells me he wishes that he had a degree in something else. No offense, but I think at this point, it is too early for you to say this. If things work out for you (ie. no furlough, quick upgrade), you may continue to think that it was worth it. If things don't work out so well, you may change your mind. Just something to think about.

I'm not sure where you got your numbers, but I really tend to disagree. I've been here 3 years and haven't meet anyone who has dropped out so I wouldn't say 'it's very probable'. Sure some people change their majors, but it is not 'almost guaranteed.' I have added a major, but never changed and most of my freinds have never changed majors either.

A four year degree in two years, while having a full time job, and earning your private-mei. I dunno man that is pretty hard to believe, kudos if you did but I'm doubtful.

It's already been mentioned in your other thread, but look into UND. They offer a wide variety of degrees and their aviation programs are second to none. Don't let the weather scare you off. Tuition is cheap and the cost of living is very low. If you are going to take out student loans, keep in mind it's much easier to do so at a part 141 school. The website is pretty good. If you have any questions feel free to let me know.

http://www.avit.und.edu/f1_Home/index.php

Point taken. I was actually not diasgreeing with your point to get a degree outside of aviation. I was disagreeing with the point that was made by another poster stating that it was a bad Idea to go to a State College. My degree is actually in Business administation with an aviation emphasis. I think a degree putside of aviation is a pretty good idea. Sorry if I was not clear on that. i did say aviation degree in that post.

[.



A four year degree in two years, while having a full time job, and earning your private-mei. I dunno man that is pretty hard to believe, kudos if you did but I'm doubtful.

It's already been mentioned in your other thread, but look into UND. They offer a wide variety of degrees and their aviation programs are second to none. Don't let the weather scare you off. Tuition is cheap and the cost of living is very low. If you are going to take out student loans, keep in mind it's much easier to do so at a part 141 school. The website is pretty good. If you have any questions feel free to let me know.

http://www.avit.und.edu/f1_Home/index.php[/QUOTE]


yeah that's what all my friends said. I went through all summers and took a pretty heavy class load. The only one who can really confirm this is my wife who knows I was gone all the time. The only way this was truly possible was through some on line classes. With out them the classroom time would have been to much to make this a reality.

I got my M.E. there. After that, I went to Mr. Smith's new hire CFI class. I think only half of what he tried to teach us was true. There was also the fact they pay there new CFI's like $ 11.50 an hour. I had already been CFIing for someone else and didn't like taking a $5.00 an hour pay cut. However, I got a job flying the mighty twin otter instead.

Did you instruct at Advantage or Million air? If so I might know who you are. When did you go through the CFI class. (I will agree, that class is a Joke)

School option
 

Kansas State University, 4-year degree with PVT-MEI $55,000

thanks again for all this advice really good stuff here. i submitted an application to und about 2 weeks ago, after i realized how short i was on cash after financial aid. i didnt know the cost of living was cheap there, heck that wouldve been my first choice then. one of the reasons behind going to florida tech is that i have a friend's family down there that i would live with, so i wouldnt pay housing or food after first year. ill look into und's cost of living though. thanks for the suggestion. please keep advice/life stories coming this is all great stuff. another angle is always great to look at thanks.

Well, not all drop out the first year many drop after 2 or 3rd year. If you don't belive me buy those college guides that show the info on all the colleges and you will see the section about drop-out rates and most are high. As far as changin majors, maybe it doesn't happen much at UND aviation, I'm guessing for you aviation guys changing majors is not an option right? After all the money you have spent. That's one of the down sides of aviation colleges.

To be fair, UND is NOT an aviation college. It is a normal liberal arts college which happens to have one of the best aviation departments in the country. So if you get done with your PPL and decide you don't like aviation, go switch to theatre arts or communications or something (more than a few people do). I know of a lot of people who start out majoring in Commercial Aviation, which takes you from PPL through CFII, and then decide they want to stop at comm multi inst so they switch to Aviation Management.

Wouldn't it be hard to meet someone at college if they had dropped out?:D I have been at UND for almost 6 years now and I have known several people who have changed majors, added majors and minors and left all together. It is fairly common no matter where you go for people in college to change majors. Except for us idiots getting into aviation because its all we've ever wanted to do, most people don't have a clue about what they want to do when they start college.

What I guess I should have said is that I've never known anyone who has dropped out all together; no one here or any of my high school friends back at home. I know it happens, I just don't think its that common. Completely agree with everything else, well put.

hey jmt21, wats ur sn? i have a few questions about und. if anybody else knows please share the info . . .

1) what kind of planes do you guys fly
2) is it possible to take aviation management, flight together(all the way to CFII)?
3) what is the work load like there? how many hours per night should i get ready to invest?
4) internships and career services - is it any good over there, and what do they offer?
5) what fun toys do you guys have that put yall ahead of everybody else?
6) how hard is it to get on the flight team? what does that require?

thanks!

try selling drugs. you can make a quick buck that way.

1) UND flys primarily Warriors, Arrows, and Seminoles. They also have a Baron, a cub, a couple decathlons, a couple of Bells, Several Schweizers, and 4-5 Cirrus SR-20's with several more on the way. I believe our total fleet is around 80 aircraft.

2) I'm a commercial aviation and aviation management major. With aviation management you earn your commercial, instrument, and multi. You can take CFI and CFII as electives, many people do this. This link will break down all the aviation majors. http://www.avit.und.edu/f2_Programs/...uate/index.php

3) The load isn't to bad. Some nights it's nothing, others it's several hours. I'm pretty good at putting things off till the last minute though. It's really different for everyone, I have never found it to be too much.

4) Career Services isn't too bad. They put everything up on their website, I have always found them to be pretty helpful. Many of the regionals will lower their mins for UND grads which helps a lot. I know of people who have done internships at AOPA, NTSB, JetBlue, Northwest, American, Air Wisconsin, ASA, Phoenix-Sky Harbor, several different local corporate flight ops, and there is probably more.

5) We have an altitude chamber where you'll have the opportunity to experience hypoxia and a rapid decompression. UND also has 12 aircraft simulators-6 warrior sims, 5 seminole sims, and a CRJ sim. In addition, we have a 360 degree ATC tower sim and brand new ATC lab (scopes). The ATC thing is pretty sweet, it's like real life-tower will clear a plane for take off, hand them off the departure, and then departure hands them off the center (and vise-versa). The plane is tracked the entire time by student controllers through the simulators, with a psuedo pilot on the other end.

6) I'm not a member of the flying team, so I won't be a great deal of help for you. I believe anyone can join the flying team, I don't believe there are any requirements, just be an aviation student. It sounds like you start off doing non flying stuff then move up to a flying spot.

http://flightops.aero.und.edu/airplanes/ This website is pretty good, check out the indivigual links towards the top of it. http://flightops.aero.und.edu/facts/faq.asp#14 this one is a FAQ link. Hope this helps, if you think of anything else, feel free to ask.

My 2 cents.
Dont pay more than 50k for your traning.

Universitys allow you to get government sub loans, allowing you to consolidate. (Im at 1.5% interest, locked in), the down side you have to major in aviation. Also it is a bit slower, because they will only give you x-ammount per semester, so sometimes you have to delay traning for fundage.
Talk to grads of the program get their opinion on the school.

Its all who you know! let me repeat that, Its all who you know!! If you can find an examiner who is a cheif pilot for a regional or check airman do all your checkrides with them. Make sure your are prepared and do your best to not only pass your ride, but impress them. This will say much more than the school you go to.

Universtiys are fun, lots of horny chicks. I talked to guys who went to riddle, and it was a sausage fest. (ie. guy to girl ratio sucks)

Weather is also important, sunshine is good, speeds things up.

Another route, get your private/instrument, then study your a$$ off and go for the Air national guard. Check out their web page. No getting suck in iraq.

Have fun

Awesomesauce17,

Look to the military. They pay for your flight training. I would advise if you go that route that you go ahead and get your privates.

I went through ROTC, got a pilot slot, and the USAF paid for 13 hrs in a C-152(that's all the time I had. had my first plane flight when I was 17... on SWA) So, when I walked through the gate at Reese AFB, Tx, I had no idea what I was doing. But 51 weeks later, I walked out with USAF pilot wings.

Awesomesauce
 

One way to skip ROTC is by going the OCS route. A couple Navy buds of mine had their college assisted for by the Navy doing a program called BDCP(I think that is what it is called) We called them program guys. I don't know the exact details of the program, you would have to look into it. You attend OCS after college and earn the rank of ensign. If you have been accepted for a pilot spot, you will start pilot training after OCS. The only drawback is that if you washout of pilot training, I think that you owe the Navy 4 years because of the money they gave for college.