Is airline flying really for you???
11-02-2008, 06:04 PM
#21
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: UPS driver
Posts: 16
I really think if you are not passionate about flying, you should not do it as a career. Really. It requires sacrifices, it will take you high, low, beat you up, and give you the greatest joys. Its incredibly irregular. You have to love it to stay committed.
Its painful to have to put flying to the side because of the current economy, or just take large steps backward just to fly. And if you haven't had to do something else, you have never been furloughed, never had to work hard to get a flight job, or had lots of money to spend while waiting to fly. Its a bad career, but damn if I don't love the job.
Its painful to have to put flying to the side because of the current economy, or just take large steps backward just to fly. And if you haven't had to do something else, you have never been furloughed, never had to work hard to get a flight job, or had lots of money to spend while waiting to fly. Its a bad career, but damn if I don't love the job.
11-03-2008, 04:51 PM
#22
Drinkin' coffee...
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: P-p-piiilatusss
Posts: 680
i know i couldn't do anything but fly. unfortunately i took a job with a regional i knew that i might not like. i blame myself for getting into this position b/c i cannot stand my job right now. for me at this point sitting reserve and flying 15 hours a month is killing me. i used to fly 8 hrs a day 5-6 days a week and now i sit on a couch 24 days a month...i'm more frustrated than i thought i could ever be but every once in awhile i get to do a 2 leg deadhead to fly 40 minutes and it is worth it...it sucks though to have to spend so much time away from the Mrs. and family and friends...it sometimes sad that in order do what we're meant to do we have to sacrefice so much...
11-08-2008, 11:27 AM
#23
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: 135, REALLY SMALL!
Posts: 42
"How would you guys define your passion for aviation?"
Airline flying isn't for everyone, I'm not sure it's for me! One thing I am sure of is I couldn't do anything but fly, but 121 isn't the only thing out there. Honestly I think a dream job would be flying regionally in someones BE200. I'm a big fan of flying 135 (cargo/pax) right now, and I'll keep doing so until I find something I am sure of. Don't let the negativity of so many of the posts get you down, it's important to remember that one of the major qualifications for a professional pilot is being able to complain about everything. And complain we do, and often. For that I appologize, because I'm just as guilty as anyone! What I'm trying to say is don't base everything on what you read. Go fly! Then decide if it's for you!
Airline flying isn't for everyone, I'm not sure it's for me! One thing I am sure of is I couldn't do anything but fly, but 121 isn't the only thing out there. Honestly I think a dream job would be flying regionally in someones BE200. I'm a big fan of flying 135 (cargo/pax) right now, and I'll keep doing so until I find something I am sure of. Don't let the negativity of so many of the posts get you down, it's important to remember that one of the major qualifications for a professional pilot is being able to complain about everything. And complain we do, and often. For that I appologize, because I'm just as guilty as anyone! What I'm trying to say is don't base everything on what you read. Go fly! Then decide if it's for you!
11-10-2008, 07:05 PM
#24
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: CFI
Posts: 8
"How would you guys define your passion for aviation?"
I've heard it said more than once that aviation is a jealous mistress, but man is she worth it. If you have the drive to really stick with it. You'll get to see things out that front window that you never ever would if you were stuck behind a desk somewhere. I had an office job before I started flying and there's no way that I could go back. It hasn't been the easiest career, I've moved all over the country for work and was flying 135 until the economy downturn and now I'm instructing again. If you can keep the spirit that you're flying because you love flying then the rocky spots aren't so bad. At least in my opinion...
I've heard it said more than once that aviation is a jealous mistress, but man is she worth it. If you have the drive to really stick with it. You'll get to see things out that front window that you never ever would if you were stuck behind a desk somewhere. I had an office job before I started flying and there's no way that I could go back. It hasn't been the easiest career, I've moved all over the country for work and was flying 135 until the economy downturn and now I'm instructing again. If you can keep the spirit that you're flying because you love flying then the rocky spots aren't so bad. At least in my opinion...
08-07-2009, 12:56 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 456
Originally Posted by dd89
Airline flying is not for me
(I wrote this rant "stream of consciousness" style. Sorry for being somewhat incoherent.)
Thank you for posting about your past experiences in the aviation industry EVERYONE, especially Mr. Skyhigh. I truly appreciate what you’re doing, and I’ll tell you how you and others on this board and on PPRUNE.org, who tell of the realities of this career path, of both good and bad, have helped me realize this isn’t for me.
I always thought this job was for me. That since it was my passion it would mean I would never get bored at work. Finishing high school, I was really close to cashing out the equivalent of 100k for an “Aviation College” in my home country. That’s about the time when I started reading on the forums of pprune.org. I started to find out about the realities of being an airline pilot, however I was positive and was very much still in “love”. All the negativities and people saying the hardships one has to go through only fueled my own determination. “Hah, they aren’t determined enough” I thought, “I won’t end up like them, I know what it takes and will make it no matter what. I’ve loved aircraft since I’ve been a little kid, heck I was on an airliner a week after I was born. If this isn’t for me, nothing is.”
Knowing the unstable nature of the industry I chose to go to uni and study aeronautical engineering. (This is where I’m at now). I have spent the last year and a half daydreaming about being on the flight deck running check lists and flying around the world in a boeing. I even laid out a grand plan where I figured out the costs of each of the ratings and how I would progress to my first airline job. I had the bug.
I was fully aware of the many hardships that go along with an airline career, yet i was 110% sure I wanted to go for it. It’s going to be worth it when I get to the RHS of a Boeing I thought. All this time I’m completely sure I would enjoy flying an airliner. The question is, how do I know if I really will enjoy flying an airliner when I haven’t done it? Havin been in a friend’s dad’s Cessna, I thought I confirmed that airline flying was definitely for me. No, the only thing I had confirmed was that flying in a Cessna was really awesome. As for the airline flying, I could only imagine the job in my head. It was good dreaming about it. The reality as I found out is so different, and I’m referring to the airline flying itself, not about the awful pay/benefits that comes with the some of the jobs.
I found out what it’s really like to work on the flight deck after watching cockpit videos. I was bored out of my mind watching them. Sure the view was great at times, but most of the work seemed so boring to me, and they do this many hours each day for several days at a time! After 1 hour I was bored to death. No wonder I’m reading about BA captains who can’t wait to retire and who say “airlines are not the be all end all”. I used to be baffled by this. And thinking about it, although I’m always excited to get to the airport and see planes, love air shows, enjoy the take-off part, but other than that I’m always kinda bored during a flight. It was the same boredom when watching these videos.
The interesting thing is that the first time I watched the video I was trying to deny that I was bored by it. It was exciting to watch the first 20 minutes, but then I was just forcing myself to watch. After watching several other videos, I’ve started to come to terms with the truth. I find airline flying boring.
The same thing happens when I play flight sim. I find flying the Cessna was fun and free, learning and “flying” the 737 was boring (all those damned procedures, fms and stuff, I WANNA FLY DAMMIT and be free).
It was almost painful to admit this, but now I have, especially when the other things about the job are included. But the fun and excitement factor of airline flying was the main thing that was keeping the fire burning in me, but now I know (for me at least) that airline flying is downright boring. The freedom and fun of flying exists in my opinion in GA, not in airline flying. Watch cockpit videos and see if that type of flying is “free” and exciting, do you see yourself doing that type of flying the rest of your life? For me, not worth the hardships, not worth the money that has to be spent on training, not worth a big chunk of my life. I can’t believe that the end result of all the sacrifice of wannabees is the kind of flying I’m seeing in those cockpit videos. Again, no wonder all pilots say the best flying they did was during training and before getting into that boeing/airbus.
Why am I ranting about this you say? I know that many others dreaming about being a pilot must think that the job, the flying itself, must be awesome, just like a hobby, never boring, even though the benefits and pay are bad and you get shift work. They will do it for the flying. Just make sure you know what that type of flying is like before getting into it. I too thought flying a 747 must be so interesting and keep me happy if I ever got to fly one. Nope, whenever I feel the airline flying bug, I just watch these cockpit videos and get turned off straight away. And to think I was ready to sacrifice so much for this…..
RANT OVER.
I think to really enjoy the job, you need to enjoy operating an airliner, try that in FLIGHTSIM (download those realism add-ons for 737 etc) and also see if you enjoy watching cockpit videos. If you truly love that kind of flying, go for it. Don’t base your decision on how you imagine how flying an airliner will be.
Thank you FLIGHTSIM, thank you COCKPIT VIDEOS and last but not least thank you PPRUNE.org and APC forums. You let me see what the job is really like. I don’t like it, I like general aviation, not airline flying (although photos are pretty and I’m still amazed at the machines, just not the flying part).
If you got annoyed by my post, which you prolly did, i'm sorry i didn't make it shorter and more to the point. It was a rant after all. One and a half years worth of it.
(I wrote this rant "stream of consciousness" style. Sorry for being somewhat incoherent.)
Thank you for posting about your past experiences in the aviation industry EVERYONE, especially Mr. Skyhigh. I truly appreciate what you’re doing, and I’ll tell you how you and others on this board and on PPRUNE.org, who tell of the realities of this career path, of both good and bad, have helped me realize this isn’t for me.
I always thought this job was for me. That since it was my passion it would mean I would never get bored at work. Finishing high school, I was really close to cashing out the equivalent of 100k for an “Aviation College” in my home country. That’s about the time when I started reading on the forums of pprune.org. I started to find out about the realities of being an airline pilot, however I was positive and was very much still in “love”. All the negativities and people saying the hardships one has to go through only fueled my own determination. “Hah, they aren’t determined enough” I thought, “I won’t end up like them, I know what it takes and will make it no matter what. I’ve loved aircraft since I’ve been a little kid, heck I was on an airliner a week after I was born. If this isn’t for me, nothing is.”
Knowing the unstable nature of the industry I chose to go to uni and study aeronautical engineering. (This is where I’m at now). I have spent the last year and a half daydreaming about being on the flight deck running check lists and flying around the world in a boeing. I even laid out a grand plan where I figured out the costs of each of the ratings and how I would progress to my first airline job. I had the bug.
I was fully aware of the many hardships that go along with an airline career, yet i was 110% sure I wanted to go for it. It’s going to be worth it when I get to the RHS of a Boeing I thought. All this time I’m completely sure I would enjoy flying an airliner. The question is, how do I know if I really will enjoy flying an airliner when I haven’t done it? Havin been in a friend’s dad’s Cessna, I thought I confirmed that airline flying was definitely for me. No, the only thing I had confirmed was that flying in a Cessna was really awesome. As for the airline flying, I could only imagine the job in my head. It was good dreaming about it. The reality as I found out is so different, and I’m referring to the airline flying itself, not about the awful pay/benefits that comes with the some of the jobs.
I found out what it’s really like to work on the flight deck after watching cockpit videos. I was bored out of my mind watching them. Sure the view was great at times, but most of the work seemed so boring to me, and they do this many hours each day for several days at a time! After 1 hour I was bored to death. No wonder I’m reading about BA captains who can’t wait to retire and who say “airlines are not the be all end all”. I used to be baffled by this. And thinking about it, although I’m always excited to get to the airport and see planes, love air shows, enjoy the take-off part, but other than that I’m always kinda bored during a flight. It was the same boredom when watching these videos.
The interesting thing is that the first time I watched the video I was trying to deny that I was bored by it. It was exciting to watch the first 20 minutes, but then I was just forcing myself to watch. After watching several other videos, I’ve started to come to terms with the truth. I find airline flying boring.
The same thing happens when I play flight sim. I find flying the Cessna was fun and free, learning and “flying” the 737 was boring (all those damned procedures, fms and stuff, I WANNA FLY DAMMIT and be free).
It was almost painful to admit this, but now I have, especially when the other things about the job are included. But the fun and excitement factor of airline flying was the main thing that was keeping the fire burning in me, but now I know (for me at least) that airline flying is downright boring. The freedom and fun of flying exists in my opinion in GA, not in airline flying. Watch cockpit videos and see if that type of flying is “free” and exciting, do you see yourself doing that type of flying the rest of your life? For me, not worth the hardships, not worth the money that has to be spent on training, not worth a big chunk of my life. I can’t believe that the end result of all the sacrifice of wannabees is the kind of flying I’m seeing in those cockpit videos. Again, no wonder all pilots say the best flying they did was during training and before getting into that boeing/airbus.
Why am I ranting about this you say? I know that many others dreaming about being a pilot must think that the job, the flying itself, must be awesome, just like a hobby, never boring, even though the benefits and pay are bad and you get shift work. They will do it for the flying. Just make sure you know what that type of flying is like before getting into it. I too thought flying a 747 must be so interesting and keep me happy if I ever got to fly one. Nope, whenever I feel the airline flying bug, I just watch these cockpit videos and get turned off straight away. And to think I was ready to sacrifice so much for this…..
RANT OVER.
I think to really enjoy the job, you need to enjoy operating an airliner, try that in FLIGHTSIM (download those realism add-ons for 737 etc) and also see if you enjoy watching cockpit videos. If you truly love that kind of flying, go for it. Don’t base your decision on how you imagine how flying an airliner will be.
Thank you FLIGHTSIM, thank you COCKPIT VIDEOS and last but not least thank you PPRUNE.org and APC forums. You let me see what the job is really like. I don’t like it, I like general aviation, not airline flying (although photos are pretty and I’m still amazed at the machines, just not the flying part).
If you got annoyed by my post, which you prolly did, i'm sorry i didn't make it shorter and more to the point. It was a rant after all. One and a half years worth of it.
Finish your Degree... Get a job... Then get your PPL. if you enjoyed that, then get your IFR... If you enjoyed that Commercial, Multi, etc...
if you call it quits after PVT, you only spent 8 grand... If it's the only thing you can think about, and you like to travel, and hate 9 to 5... well then you definitely should try it out. Don't let people on the forums make decisions for you. Most of the nay-sayers never worked in an office before... Most of them got a bad stroke of luck. Doesn't happen to everyone. For every 85 guys on furlough, there are 1000's that are happy and love their life. Most of the forum people will be those on furlough. (Flame Shields Up)
08-07-2009, 02:25 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 317
Originally Posted by Dan64456
I'm not a professional pilot...those on furlough. (Flame Shields Up)
Remember, some day they will have to compete with the car world to bring people to aviation, I can't wait!
08-09-2009, 01:03 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by dd89
Airline flying is not for me
Thank you FLIGHTSIM, thank you COCKPIT VIDEOS and last but not least thank you PPRUNE.org and APC forums. You let me see what the job is really
Thank you FLIGHTSIM, thank you COCKPIT VIDEOS and last but not least thank you PPRUNE.org and APC forums. You let me see what the job is really
Cockpit videos will show you nothing, BTW. Sure, crew members are touching switches, but do you know what and why they do it? You have no idea behind the purpose of anything going on. On top of that, you aren't the one in the position making judgment calls nor can you accurately see things (out the front) nor the displays or hear all the little sounds the crew would.
If your idea of professional flying (whatever it is to you) is so easily swayed by some videos purchased online or whatever you see on youtube, I think you need to question how you form your decisions.
Watching COPS does not show you the other aspects of being a police officer. Paperwork, court appearances, not getting the bad guy, death, etc.
08-09-2009, 08:36 AM
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: ATP, CFII, MEI, Chief Flight Instructor, Charter Captain CE402, CE421, BE58
Posts: 80
A lot of good points being made here. As a Chief instructor at of fairly new 141 school, I usually ask all the students what they want to do for their flying job. Some say corporate, airlines, ag, or whatever. I try to let them know that you can't have blinders on. My career has taken some interesting twists and I'm sure will continue to do so. I was furloughed just about a year ago from my first jet job, but I had retained my position as Chief Inst. which saved my bacon, so I do that, some instruction and Charter. Flying is the ONLY thing for me. What I tell them is, you can be working towards something, but you never know what is going to happen, who you are going to meet along the way. They may offer you a job.
My mentor (RIP) told me that your life can change in 30 seconds...he began his career over France in an A-26 and flew for 64 years. Military, corporate, charter, instructor, freight. My point is, you don't know what is going to happen. Their are a lot of cool flying jobs out there.
POP QUIZ: What is the BEST airplane?
The one that is paying your bills!!!
That pretty much says it all.
For myself, I LOVE flying and I've done a lot of different things in my life. It is what I'm best at as well.
Watching some video doesn't cut it either, in making a decision about anything.
Papa T
My mentor (RIP) told me that your life can change in 30 seconds...he began his career over France in an A-26 and flew for 64 years. Military, corporate, charter, instructor, freight. My point is, you don't know what is going to happen. Their are a lot of cool flying jobs out there.
POP QUIZ: What is the BEST airplane?
The one that is paying your bills!!!
That pretty much says it all.
For myself, I LOVE flying and I've done a lot of different things in my life. It is what I'm best at as well.
Watching some video doesn't cut it either, in making a decision about anything.
Papa T
08-10-2009, 07:10 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 456
About the boring video thing...
Take my job for example...
I am an IT Analyst for a commercial real estate company... Can you imagine watching me answer phone calls in my cubicle, make changes to the network on my computer, fix peoples issues over RDP, etc from a video? Talk about boring. But as papatango269 and others have said, the video doesn't tell barely ANY of the story. Watching video of a takeoff, and being at the controls during takeoff - 2 completely different things. Same thing with seeing pictures of sunsets from the air... Doesn't even come close to the live image while you are standing on a mountain or looking from the cockpit window. Money ain't everything, neither is a big house, fast car, whatever... Experiences are way better than THINGS. It is nice to have a decent clean place to live, and a reliable nice car.. But I'd rather drive the Honda and love my job than drive a BMW and hate my job... I think in 5 years the airline industry will be very different from the one we know today. Good, or bad, the low pay and fatigue cat is out of the box... so we shall see. But at least you got time to establish yourself in a different job, make some money, maybe earn some ratings... And if they start hiring again (and they will), then you have a head start with less debt...
Take my job for example...
I am an IT Analyst for a commercial real estate company... Can you imagine watching me answer phone calls in my cubicle, make changes to the network on my computer, fix peoples issues over RDP, etc from a video? Talk about boring. But as papatango269 and others have said, the video doesn't tell barely ANY of the story. Watching video of a takeoff, and being at the controls during takeoff - 2 completely different things. Same thing with seeing pictures of sunsets from the air... Doesn't even come close to the live image while you are standing on a mountain or looking from the cockpit window. Money ain't everything, neither is a big house, fast car, whatever... Experiences are way better than THINGS. It is nice to have a decent clean place to live, and a reliable nice car.. But I'd rather drive the Honda and love my job than drive a BMW and hate my job... I think in 5 years the airline industry will be very different from the one we know today. Good, or bad, the low pay and fatigue cat is out of the box... so we shall see. But at least you got time to establish yourself in a different job, make some money, maybe earn some ratings... And if they start hiring again (and they will), then you have a head start with less debt...
08-11-2009, 07:57 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: DHC-8 SIC
Posts: 634
Before I started flying, I dreamed about the whole airline flying thing, you know flying a 747, the uniform, the glamor. Needless to say, now I realize how difficult it is to get into a 747. How much hard work, time, money, sacrifices, and ups and downs in your life that you will have to experience before you get into a 747? (I am using "747" as a mere example). I have been flying for almost an year, and I am learning something new everyday. Funny thing is that I have stopped dreaming of that 747 now, but I am just mostly looking forward to the next time I hop into that 172, because I know that it is going to take a lot of hard work prior to preparing for my next flight. Because I am so "busy" thinking of the next flight and trying to make it as successful as I possibly can, I really have no time to worry about the 747 dream. My point is, that you need to be focused on the task at hand. For an example, if you are working on your PPL, work on it hard, and make sure you build some good habits to take with you in the future. How can you make such a decision based on cockpit videos or flight sims? Sorry, but it doesn't make any sense to me at all. It is one thing to have a goal in life, but it is not at all productive to think of something so far ahead. I am not sure if you made the right decision here. But if you are strongly sure that airline flying isn't for you, then you might be right. As for me, I love my office job because it pays for me to fly, but definitely not something I would want to do for the rest of my life. Yes, it would take me a heck of lot of time, money, etc. but it is about the romance and hope I make it someday.
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08-22-2008 04:58 AM
