Flight Safety vs. ATP
 

I'm an aspiring pilot on the verge of a very important as well as expensive decision. I have my decision narrowed down to two flight schools, flight safety and ATP. Both are fairly comparable in price and I've heard positive things about both schools. About me, I'm 24 and have relatively no flight time, aside from flying around in my buddy's piper several years ago. I've loved flying ever since I was little, and can think of no better job than an airline pilot. Time frame from start to finish is important, but so is the quality of instruction. I would really appreciate any info from anyone affiliated with these two schools.

Unless you have unlimited financial resources, make sure your school allows you to focus on the training required for your FAA ratings and doesn't force you to buy extra training like airline ops or jet training. That kind of stuff is not necessary but will cost a great deal.

You can get it all done for $30-35K at your local small airport, so if you are going to pay much more than that, you really need to understand WHY? and there had better be a really good reason (ie guaranteed job as a 747 or space-shuttle commander).

Yeah, but rickair7777, doesn't the same amount of $ (given all things are equal in terms of quality of training) at a facility like ATP or FSA gives me more options? For example, wouldn't being affiliated w/ATP or FSA, as one who is a CFI in a AMEL a/c with 1000TT and 250 multi gives me an edge?

Flight safety is the best of all the major academies.
Costs are competitive, and in may cases, better than DCA, RAA, ATP, and American Flyers.

BIG advantage, you get to do your instrument in a multi. Remember you need 100hrs of multi to get a good airline job offer. If you get your CFI, and sign a contract to instruct for 800hrs (About 1 year), which you will probably need to do anyway, Flight Safety will pay for your CFII and MEI. No cost to you. Another HUGE advantage, since the instrument, commercial, and multi training is ALL done in a multi engine aircraft, most your time instructing will be multi time. It is not uncommon to see F.S. guys with 1000TT and like 500 multi!

No other flight academy even comes close to flight safety.

With that said, I think what Rickair recommended (going to a local FBO is the best option).y recommendation would be to do your licenses and ratings at an FBO. It will save you at least $20,000 for the same training. At academies, you will pay $55 an hour for instruction. At an FBO you will pay about $35 an hour for instruction. The flip side, when you want to instruct to timebuild, academies will only pay you $14 an hour. The FBO will pay you $25-35 an hour. BIG DIFFERENCE! At academies, you will pay like $105 for an old cessna, while at an FBO you will pay $80-90 for an old cessna. At academies you will pay over $200 an hour for a multi, while those cost about $150 at an FBO. As crazy as these prices are, the place where these academies make their money is ground school. If you take the hours of ground school divided by the total cost, it works out to like $20 an hour for a class of 10-20 people. That's too much! American Flyers charges $80 an hour for classroom instruction, and they are proud of it. That is more than classes cost at Stanford or Yale!!!

That is why I recommend an FBO over an airline academy. It is much cheaper, you will make more money, and the training can be accomplished in the SAME amount of time.

ATP, FSA or FBO?
 

ryane946:

Is it all relative though in terms of the # of students I would have to instruct at an FBO making that kind of money? Whereas, at an academy, I'm almost sure that a guaranteed base salary is offered with some perks? Or maybe even making $14-$15/hr with a prescribe number of trainees assigned to me?

What's your take on that? Just trying to weigh the pro and cons because I will be starting my flight training hopefully later this year. When I go to my financial resource, I'm sure these questions will come up again.

atp

You would have an advantage as a brand-new CFI getting a CFI job at the place you did your CFI training. This applies to any school. But CFI jobs aren't that hard to come by anyway.


1000/250 should get you an interview at any of a number of regionals regardless of where you went to school.

If the cost and convenience of FSA is comparable to your local flight school, then by all means do it! They have a good reputation. Same applies to ATP.

But if they want $60K+, my recomendation is to get it done locally...what you need to get a job are ratings and flight time, period. Get 'em as cheap as you can (unless you have a trust fund, then do whatever makes you happy).

The nature of civilian flight training is that there is no possible "value added" that is worth paying an ADDITIONAL $30-60K. A lot of people don't know any better, and a lot of people pay the money...the entire "glossy-brochure" flight academy industry is based on ignorant customers. Don't be one.

Well said rickair. That is the best way to put flight academies into words.

This can be somewhat true. I was kinda lucky. I found a great operation that allowed CFI's to work as independent contracters, which means $35 an hour for me. With this extra pay, I am able to offer discounts to my students (I always charge atleast 1/2 hour less than they would normally pay). That means the students want to work with me, and I routinely have a full student base. I am able to CFI as much as anyone at an airline academy.

You have a point. You will not be guarenteed students if you work at an FBO. But I have two things to say about that.

1. If you work hard enough, you can have enough students at an FBO. Offer them a good deal on flight instruction time. Your goal is not to earn as much as possible as a CFI, your goal is to get the most flight hours as quick as possible, then go to an airline and make money. If you spend your first month or two hanging out at the flight school and you talk to all the perspective students, they will want to have YOU as their instructor. Trust me, it works like 80% of the time.

2. One important thing to think about at a flight academy. EVERY student who gets their private/instrument/comm/multi WILL become a flight instructor. That means that flight academies often have LOTS of instructors. Think about that too.

atp is a crap school when regionals are sucking up pilots. your instructor will have just finished his checkride the day you show up.

ATP gets the job done and their students / CFIs don't ***** about them as much as some of the other schools out there. IN fact, most had a positive experience and were taken care of. Of course, you always have the victims in any career / school. You could get a newly minted CFI at any other school / FBO....


-LA

ATP, FSA or FBO?
 

Ok rickair7777, ryane946 and you too, LA:

So, just to make clear, I don't need to take an RJ course at one of these schools in order to be considered for employment with one of the "partners" as long as I meet the prescribed minimums, correct?

atp

P.S. - Workday over. Talk with you guys l8r. :D