Training Difficulty at an Airline
11-21-2008, 11:09 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
Originally Posted by rickair7777
It depends on a number of variables. The basic requirements are pretty straight forward, but there is a LOT to learn in a short period of time.
The big variables are the quality of the training program, the consistency of the instructors/evaluators, and how much help they will give you if you get in trouble. I have known airline training programs range from 1% to 50% attrition rate. Crappy regionals will usually have a higher fail rate when pilot supply/demand is in their favor, because they don't care about you and can easily replace you.
Indoc is pretty easy.
Turbojet systems are easy if you have an engineering degree or similar background, otherwise expect to work hard in systems class.
As an new-hire FO you may or may not have an oral interview based on the knowledge from indoc and systems.
As far as sim training, your background is a huge factor...
- If you are coming from a CFI job you are going to have to work your butt off. If the program is not stresful, you are probably not trying hard enough and will fail.
- If you have previous 135 turbine time it will be easier...you will be used to the pace, but there are many differences in 121.
- If you are coming from a 121 job in a similar airplane, it should be fairly routine. I did this once (same airplane) and I ended up with a lot of time to kill because I only had to learn those few things which were different frommy previous airline.
Bottom line, be prepared to work hard every waking hour if needed. Do NOT arrive at training with outstanding personal issues...attempt to get a deferred class date so you can resolve your problems first. The guys who are at the start of divorce proceedings always fail out.
Also be wary of taking a job at one of the bottom feeders which are known for throwing new-hires under the bus. If the sim instructors are outside contractors and not company employees, that is bad...they may view you as an annoying nuisance, not a brother pilot.
The big variables are the quality of the training program, the consistency of the instructors/evaluators, and how much help they will give you if you get in trouble. I have known airline training programs range from 1% to 50% attrition rate. Crappy regionals will usually have a higher fail rate when pilot supply/demand is in their favor, because they don't care about you and can easily replace you.
Indoc is pretty easy.
Turbojet systems are easy if you have an engineering degree or similar background, otherwise expect to work hard in systems class.
As an new-hire FO you may or may not have an oral interview based on the knowledge from indoc and systems.
As far as sim training, your background is a huge factor...
- If you are coming from a CFI job you are going to have to work your butt off. If the program is not stresful, you are probably not trying hard enough and will fail.
- If you have previous 135 turbine time it will be easier...you will be used to the pace, but there are many differences in 121.
- If you are coming from a 121 job in a similar airplane, it should be fairly routine. I did this once (same airplane) and I ended up with a lot of time to kill because I only had to learn those few things which were different frommy previous airline.
Bottom line, be prepared to work hard every waking hour if needed. Do NOT arrive at training with outstanding personal issues...attempt to get a deferred class date so you can resolve your problems first. The guys who are at the start of divorce proceedings always fail out.
Also be wary of taking a job at one of the bottom feeders which are known for throwing new-hires under the bus. If the sim instructors are outside contractors and not company employees, that is bad...they may view you as an annoying nuisance, not a brother pilot.
The comment about contracted sim instructors is something I don't agree with. I've been at two regionals, on two different jets and in both cases I worked with Flight Safety employees in the sim. In both cases, I found them to be very professional and more than competent. In both cases, they were retired/furloughed airline guys with way more experience operating a jet aircraft than I'll have any time in the next 20 years. Their experience was invaluable as I was adjusting to the speed of the aircraft. They had a lot of great tips and advice that I used on the line as well.
Just be ready for the firehose. And throw out anything you might have learned about a certain jet in the past. They'll teach you what you need to know and how you need to know it.
11-21-2008, 12:01 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: I AM NOT A KAPTAIN, i keep the right seat, nice and toasty
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by Airframe
For those of you that have worked at a regional or major airline, how hard is the actual training once the interview process is over? I was just curious to know how difficult it is compared to getting your instrument rating, CFI, etc.
You should not have any problems with it. Cooperate to Graduate. Go with the flow, get standardized.
If you have questions ask. There are no dumb questions, not asking questions can get people hurt, or possibly killed.
11-25-2008, 11:06 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,575
Originally Posted by Pilotpip
The comment about contracted sim instructors is something I don't agree with. I've been at two regionals, on two different jets and in both cases I worked with Flight Safety employees in the sim. In both cases, I found them to be very professional and more than competent. In both cases, they were retired/furloughed airline guys with way more experience operating a jet aircraft than I'll have any time in the next 20 years. Their experience was invaluable as I was adjusting to the speed of the aircraft. They had a lot of great tips and advice that I used on the line as well. .
11-29-2008, 05:14 PM
#15
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 23
Indoc and systems are straightforward. Get into a study group and dedicate serious time every day, including Saturday and Sunday. Don't plan on flying home for the weekend. Make every effort to study with someone who is transferring from another airline during your systems training. That person will be helpful in ways you can't imagine. When it comes time for the simulator, I can't say this enough -- make sure you are instrument current with a very good scan. Currency on glass will be helpful, too. Also, during indoc you will probably be given your callouts for simulator a few weeks later. Find time to begin learning your callouts. Practice, practice, practice. Sit in front of the paper cockpit the airline will give you and memorize where everything is. If you have any connections to get this info before training, do it. Do not take training lightly. It is your career.
Last edited by EYELS; 11-29-2008 at 05:16 PM. Reason: Update
11-30-2008, 07:41 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
Unwind every night for a while too. Some guys had a beer in the hotel bar, some worked out, some watched TV. Get away from the books for about 90 minutes. On the weekend, hit a restaurant/bar with the rest of the class. Find a local tourist attraction to visit. Basically take the day off.
These are the most common reasons I've seen for washing out:
Thinking the CRJ sim time you had made you Maverick (doesn't work well for the ERJ)
Studying by yourself and not in a group setting
Worrying about systems while in indoc (learning memory items and limitations is ok)
Never giving yourself a break.
Thinking like a CFI and trying to teach the aircraft to the examiner and digging yourself into a hole.
Lack of overall jet system knowledge coming in. (This is where the Turbine Pilots manual comes into play)
These are the most common reasons I've seen for washing out:
Thinking the CRJ sim time you had made you Maverick (doesn't work well for the ERJ)
Studying by yourself and not in a group setting
Worrying about systems while in indoc (learning memory items and limitations is ok)
Never giving yourself a break.
Thinking like a CFI and trying to teach the aircraft to the examiner and digging yourself into a hole.
Lack of overall jet system knowledge coming in. (This is where the Turbine Pilots manual comes into play)
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