Future Outlook?
03-04-2009, 12:19 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: NU Guy
Posts: 437
Originally Posted by OldSF3Dude
In 2004 I left Mesaba to go back to school for a 2nd masters. After 6 years flying at the airlines I had enough. Contract negotiations, furloughs, displacements, etc. Basically no light at the end of the tunnel. I liked flying and the people I worked with, but couldn't justify staying with the airlines financially. Life always seemed like one step forward and two steps back. My wife made more money than me and it made no sense to move. I was sick of commuting.
ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS have a back-up career!!! Aviation is way too fickle. Some guys never get hired. Some that do are forced out. Some are like me and like being pilots but are not willing to sell their soul or their family life to do it. Many have no other job skills and are stuck with it no matter what crap the airlines deal them.
In short, get your grad degree. Have a back-up career and have independence. Never rely on the airlines to feed your family. View flying as a second job or a hobby. If you get hired at a regional you're going to make side-job wages for the first few years. View it as a side-job. Maybe it works out and your passion turns into a career, but don't put all your eggs in that basket.
That's my new philosophy, anyway. It's much less frustrating to think in these terms.
ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS have a back-up career!!! Aviation is way too fickle. Some guys never get hired. Some that do are forced out. Some are like me and like being pilots but are not willing to sell their soul or their family life to do it. Many have no other job skills and are stuck with it no matter what crap the airlines deal them.
In short, get your grad degree. Have a back-up career and have independence. Never rely on the airlines to feed your family. View flying as a second job or a hobby. If you get hired at a regional you're going to make side-job wages for the first few years. View it as a side-job. Maybe it works out and your passion turns into a career, but don't put all your eggs in that basket.
That's my new philosophy, anyway. It's much less frustrating to think in these terms.
This isn't flame but does anyone else find the above statements troubling?
03-09-2009, 04:17 AM
#32
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: CRJ200, CRJ700, CRJ900, Left Seat
Posts: 71
Fly Now...but Have a Backup!
Tom,
No industry is ever safe! Ever! About seven years ago, my wife and I were just chugging along enjoying our life as newlyweds when one day she calls and says that her company of 15 years had asked her to leave. 15 years! It was with a well-established food service company called Sysco Foods. You might have heard about them. They are one of, if not THE, leader in food service. We were devastated. They offered her a severance package and we moved on.
Me on the other hand had just joined SkyWest and though things have been challenging over the years even with a company like SkyWest, who does very well and has a lot of cash in the back, I have done well. Ironic, she has a "secure" job and I have an "airline" job and she is the one let go! Hmmmm!
In the past couple years, I have seen a lot of companies furlough and a lot go out of business. It is a risk we as pilots take.
So, to try and answer your question. If you want to fly, go fly! Enjoy it! But...have a back up plan!
Personally, I believe that once the media "scare tactic" and gloom-and-doom reports are over, the US and the world will grow AGAIN at an unprecedented rate. If you get into flying now and get your ratings and hours, which could take a few years, you will be in a position to benefit from the upswing and the need for pilots. This will get you at the top of the hiring pool when it happens. If you wait for "just the right time," you will be at the bottom of the hiring pool, then, when things slow down AGAIN, if you are at the bottom, you will be the first to go.
So follow the dream...but do it NOW!
Another thought, someone earlier said "Grad School." Not a bad idea, but my thought is that you should look closer at starting something where you don't have to rely on someone else. I started a window cleaning business, I write a blog (Almost the Speed of Sound), and I produce niche websites, all of which give me a nice "backup" income and allows me to enjoy flying a heckuva lot more.
If you haven't read Robert Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" book I recommend you get it. Also, George S Clason's "The Richest Man in Babylon" is a must read too.
Finally, I posted an article on my blog about the 5 Things Every Pilot Needs to Know. Also check out my Trusted Money Making Ideas for Pilots section. Maybe that will help!
To Your Flying Success...
Jeff
No industry is ever safe! Ever! About seven years ago, my wife and I were just chugging along enjoying our life as newlyweds when one day she calls and says that her company of 15 years had asked her to leave. 15 years! It was with a well-established food service company called Sysco Foods. You might have heard about them. They are one of, if not THE, leader in food service. We were devastated. They offered her a severance package and we moved on.
Me on the other hand had just joined SkyWest and though things have been challenging over the years even with a company like SkyWest, who does very well and has a lot of cash in the back, I have done well. Ironic, she has a "secure" job and I have an "airline" job and she is the one let go! Hmmmm!
In the past couple years, I have seen a lot of companies furlough and a lot go out of business. It is a risk we as pilots take.
So, to try and answer your question. If you want to fly, go fly! Enjoy it! But...have a back up plan!
Personally, I believe that once the media "scare tactic" and gloom-and-doom reports are over, the US and the world will grow AGAIN at an unprecedented rate. If you get into flying now and get your ratings and hours, which could take a few years, you will be in a position to benefit from the upswing and the need for pilots. This will get you at the top of the hiring pool when it happens. If you wait for "just the right time," you will be at the bottom of the hiring pool, then, when things slow down AGAIN, if you are at the bottom, you will be the first to go.
So follow the dream...but do it NOW!
Another thought, someone earlier said "Grad School." Not a bad idea, but my thought is that you should look closer at starting something where you don't have to rely on someone else. I started a window cleaning business, I write a blog (Almost the Speed of Sound), and I produce niche websites, all of which give me a nice "backup" income and allows me to enjoy flying a heckuva lot more.
If you haven't read Robert Kiyosaki's "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" book I recommend you get it. Also, George S Clason's "The Richest Man in Babylon" is a must read too.
Finally, I posted an article on my blog about the 5 Things Every Pilot Needs to Know. Also check out my Trusted Money Making Ideas for Pilots section. Maybe that will help!
To Your Flying Success...
Jeff
07-28-2013, 04:26 PM
#33
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 6
Hello guys,
Im not native english speaker for info
I bring it up this topic, by chance, as I was searching any back up plan and the topic appeared just on time.
Despite Im not in US, I saw many interesting topics here compared to european forums airlines. The outlook is different, but IMO when I observe things in Usa it will happen then in Europe most of the time.
so, I am in a stucked situation.
I have been CFI (actually called just FI here) and was pursuing a job in an airline.
I was ready to be expat in Asia etc and had some interview but did not work so well....for exemple for Cathay Pacific. I was crazy when I have been called for a stage in HK !
Guess what, once there, I had a doubt if I would have like the life in HK
I was feeling bad because as futur pilot I should be happy to relocate anywhere for this job...but I don't know why...the feeling was, for once, stronger than my passion.
anyway I failed, and despite I was a bit disappointed, after few days, I was relieved. Sorry I can not even explain why !
so!
now, the thing is I don't work as pilot at all...to get any job in aviation is a HELL tough ! Even as instructor !
Im 29, and I am seriously thinking to go back to Univeristy and get a degree. As technicians or engineer.
The problem is I am stucked now.
Because I do'nt fly, but I only have a high school diploma. I don't know what is in U.S but here it's a certificated allowing to go to University. So let's face it, it's worthless ! (for job market)
At 29, I have 2 solutions :
-go back to Uni for at least 3 years (technician level) or 5 (engineer).
- doing "student jobs" and wait for an airline position..
The second case may be risky IMO as I can not predict how many years I would wait and if I would pass any interview then.
Fortunately, I am young enough (what do you think ?) and I am single, (not even a g/f) and do not have kids.
The only thing I am worried is, if I finish at 34 y/o, do you think I could be interesting to employers in the engineering field ?
Because I will be in competition with younger than me for sure.
I was thinking about engineering in aeronautics because I have hours on piston, it could be interesting for employers. No ?
But I was thinking about engineering in general too, for exemple, I would be interested to work in water treatment if I can not be pilot.
Plus, I saw the reply from OldSF3Dude, which is interesting.
I was thinking, maybe I should study before being in airline for having back up career.
When I was 18 y/O I just never had this advice and would not listen to them maybe . If I knew it I would have studied before.
Cospilot posted good subject saying that industries are not safe anyway.
But I still think that airlines it tougher. In some Europeans countries, you can count the number of airlines on one hand. So the choice is really small.
Despite in other field like engineering, if I am not wrong, you have tons of choices.
Rails, trains, planes, cars, boats, and then environment, buildings etc
Well, I just hope that it's not too late for me.
I feel a bit frustrated though. Pilot was my dream, but now being nearly 30 y/o, my way of thinking seems to change a bit.
I was agree to be expat at any cost 2 years ago, and now I feel a bit worried to live like that all my life.
I talk to some pilots, and many just go from asia to middle east and so on. I don't even know how they do that. Well...it's a way of life for sure. But I am not sure that I am ready to do that. And I feel guilty for that...maybe Im not passionnated enough ?? :/
and according to the Thread title, I was thinking that it seems that the normal way now....moving, relocate for off shore contract and no job security etc... When I see the offers, it's really worrying. That's my feeling.
Willing to read your advices.
regards
Im not native english speaker for info
I bring it up this topic, by chance, as I was searching any back up plan and the topic appeared just on time.
Despite Im not in US, I saw many interesting topics here compared to european forums airlines. The outlook is different, but IMO when I observe things in Usa it will happen then in Europe most of the time.
so, I am in a stucked situation.
I have been CFI (actually called just FI here) and was pursuing a job in an airline.
I was ready to be expat in Asia etc and had some interview but did not work so well....for exemple for Cathay Pacific. I was crazy when I have been called for a stage in HK !
Guess what, once there, I had a doubt if I would have like the life in HK
I was feeling bad because as futur pilot I should be happy to relocate anywhere for this job...but I don't know why...the feeling was, for once, stronger than my passion.anyway I failed, and despite I was a bit disappointed, after few days, I was relieved. Sorry I can not even explain why !
so!
now, the thing is I don't work as pilot at all...to get any job in aviation is a HELL tough ! Even as instructor !
Im 29, and I am seriously thinking to go back to Univeristy and get a degree. As technicians or engineer.
The problem is I am stucked now.
Because I do'nt fly, but I only have a high school diploma. I don't know what is in U.S but here it's a certificated allowing to go to University. So let's face it, it's worthless ! (for job market)
At 29, I have 2 solutions :
-go back to Uni for at least 3 years (technician level) or 5 (engineer).
- doing "student jobs" and wait for an airline position..
The second case may be risky IMO as I can not predict how many years I would wait and if I would pass any interview then.
Fortunately, I am young enough (what do you think ?) and I am single, (not even a g/f) and do not have kids.
The only thing I am worried is, if I finish at 34 y/o, do you think I could be interesting to employers in the engineering field ?
Because I will be in competition with younger than me for sure.
I was thinking about engineering in aeronautics because I have hours on piston, it could be interesting for employers. No ?
But I was thinking about engineering in general too, for exemple, I would be interested to work in water treatment if I can not be pilot.
Plus, I saw the reply from OldSF3Dude, which is interesting.
I was thinking, maybe I should study before being in airline for having back up career.
When I was 18 y/O I just never had this advice and would not listen to them maybe . If I knew it I would have studied before
. Cospilot posted good subject saying that industries are not safe anyway.
But I still think that airlines it tougher. In some Europeans countries, you can count the number of airlines on one hand. So the choice is really small.
Despite in other field like engineering, if I am not wrong, you have tons of choices.
Rails, trains, planes, cars, boats, and then environment, buildings etc
Well, I just hope that it's not too late for me.
I feel a bit frustrated though. Pilot was my dream, but now being nearly 30 y/o, my way of thinking seems to change a bit.
I was agree to be expat at any cost 2 years ago, and now I feel a bit worried to live like that all my life.
I talk to some pilots, and many just go from asia to middle east and so on. I don't even know how they do that. Well...it's a way of life for sure. But I am not sure that I am ready to do that. And I feel guilty for that...maybe Im not passionnated enough ?? :/
and according to the Thread title, I was thinking that it seems that the normal way now....moving, relocate for off shore contract and no job security etc... When I see the offers, it's really worrying. That's my feeling.
Willing to read your advices.
regards
07-29-2013, 07:34 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 114
Air National Guard
It's already been said, but it's worth repeating. If you have your degree and can pass a class one flying medical, go to the ANG. Check out baseops.net for details and job postings. Whatever you do, DO NOT go in debt to be a civilian pilot. The return on investment is not there nor will it be there in the first 10 years once you complete your training. QOL during the first 10 years is doable for someone single, but can be borderline horrendous for someone with a family. Flying in the ANG will more than suffice your "need" to fly and prevent you from going into debt to do it.
Last edited by BackintheLPA; 07-29-2013 at 07:35 AM. Reason: Spelling
07-29-2013, 09:46 AM
#35
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 6
Originally Posted by BackintheLPA
It's already been said, but it's worth repeating. If you have your degree and can pass a class one flying medical, go to the ANG. Check out baseops.net for details and job postings. Whatever you do, DO NOT go in debt to be a civilian pilot. The return on investment is not there nor will it be there in the first 10 years once you complete your training. QOL during the first 10 years is doable for someone single, but can be borderline horrendous for someone with a family. Flying in the ANG will more than suffice your "need" to fly and prevent you from going into debt to do it.
well unfortunately I have debts...already.
The way it works in Europe is hell unlogical. I have already IR and CPL and still refund my bank.
So I do feel the pain about finances right now.
That's why I have been thinking to start a degree despite my older age.
07-30-2013, 11:50 AM
#36
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 6
Networking
Tom,
There is some really good advice from a few of the posts here. If I could add something to the conversation it would be one thing:
Make as many contacts as possible.
The first Part 135 job that I got was because of who I knew. The simple act of networking is the one single thing that is going to drive your professional aviation career. The second job that I got was in part because I had a good friend already working with the company. Thats not to say that you do not still have to be a good interviewer and have the skills to perform the job.
Obviously not knowing anything really about you and whether or not you are comfortable walking up to pilots sitting in an FBO some where and ask them questions I would suggest that start earlier rather than later. I can say from personal experience that I wish I would have taken advantage of asking more questions and getting email address to stay in touch. The point that I would like to make here is that most pilots that are sitting in an FBO are bored. Unless they are having a bad day or are just not social most pilots would love to talk to you and discourage you from getting into aviation.
If you walked up to me today and you asked me if you should get into aviation, I would tell you to do something other than be a pilot. Your more likely to find a job where you are making enough money to either rent an airplane or join a flying club. Remember a passion doesn't have to be a career.
Also if you are single stay that way. Even if they say they understand and they are willing to make it work, this will change. I found this out shortly after I started dating my wife after I explained before we started dating that my career is time consuming and I will be away.
Some questions to ask yourself:
1. Is aviation worth giving up some of your relationships?
2. Do you want to make very little for many years of your life?
3. Are you going to go into debt to make a dream come true?
4. Are you ready to live with your parents until your in your late 20's because you cant afford anything besides a crash pad in some major city?
5. Does an aviation lifestyle fit your picture of the best QOL you can have? (When it comes down to it take happiness over the desire to be a professional pilot)
Hope you have found the answer or suggestions you were hoping to find.
Cheers,
There is some really good advice from a few of the posts here. If I could add something to the conversation it would be one thing:
Make as many contacts as possible.
The first Part 135 job that I got was because of who I knew. The simple act of networking is the one single thing that is going to drive your professional aviation career. The second job that I got was in part because I had a good friend already working with the company. Thats not to say that you do not still have to be a good interviewer and have the skills to perform the job.
Obviously not knowing anything really about you and whether or not you are comfortable walking up to pilots sitting in an FBO some where and ask them questions I would suggest that start earlier rather than later. I can say from personal experience that I wish I would have taken advantage of asking more questions and getting email address to stay in touch. The point that I would like to make here is that most pilots that are sitting in an FBO are bored. Unless they are having a bad day or are just not social most pilots would love to talk to you and discourage you from getting into aviation.
If you walked up to me today and you asked me if you should get into aviation, I would tell you to do something other than be a pilot. Your more likely to find a job where you are making enough money to either rent an airplane or join a flying club. Remember a passion doesn't have to be a career.
Also if you are single stay that way. Even if they say they understand and they are willing to make it work, this will change. I found this out shortly after I started dating my wife after I explained before we started dating that my career is time consuming and I will be away.
Some questions to ask yourself:
1. Is aviation worth giving up some of your relationships?
2. Do you want to make very little for many years of your life?
3. Are you going to go into debt to make a dream come true?
4. Are you ready to live with your parents until your in your late 20's because you cant afford anything besides a crash pad in some major city?
5. Does an aviation lifestyle fit your picture of the best QOL you can have? (When it comes down to it take happiness over the desire to be a professional pilot)
Hope you have found the answer or suggestions you were hoping to find.
Cheers,
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