Future Outlook?
03-02-2009, 09:24 AM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Private - Instrument. Slowly working on the commercial...
Posts: 71
I am currently an engineer in San Diego and close to getting my commercial license. My advice to you is the following: First and foremost, figure out if you really enjoy flying. Take a couple intro flights, either at kmyf, ksee, ksdm, or kcrq. If you do then continue your aspiration in becoming a pilot. IMO (and just MY opinion) personally suggest not getting your masters at the moment. Every company I have worked for has offered to pay for it, willing you can do school part time and work full time. If you are a US citizen I would highly suggest you get an engineering job working for the government (i.e. SPAWAR) because 1) job stability 2) they will pay for grad school if you choose this route 3) relaxed atmosphere - easy to do flight training weekday nights and weekends and 4) MOST IMPORTANTLY - you get "Career Status" after working two years MEANING IF YOU EVER LEAVE YOU WILL HAVE A MUCH, MUCH EASIER TIME GETTING EMPLOYED AGAIN IF YOU RE-APPLY (I.E. FURLOUGH) and you keep your pay grade. This is this "back up career" that everyone keeps yapping at!! Personally I think once you start flying you will concentrate more on your flying ratings rather than grad school but that was just my case 
03-03-2009, 04:40 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,408
My two cents:
Keep as many options open as you can. Keep expenses down. When the industry turns around (and it will), you'll be in a much better position to see if you still want to fly for a living. Don't go into debt to fly. Pay as you go. In the mean time, put your degree to work. Have fun learning to fly and/or keep on doing it. I still look back with good memories of my GA days.
A couple of things to keep in mind: There will be nobody to fly the plane. Retirements will start cranking back up in 2012. Who will fly the plane? Zero to hero programs in the toilet, fewer military pilots and a gutted general aviation community doesn't produce the numbers required.
Keep as many options open as you can. Keep expenses down. When the industry turns around (and it will), you'll be in a much better position to see if you still want to fly for a living. Don't go into debt to fly. Pay as you go. In the mean time, put your degree to work. Have fun learning to fly and/or keep on doing it. I still look back with good memories of my GA days.
A couple of things to keep in mind: There will be nobody to fly the plane. Retirements will start cranking back up in 2012. Who will fly the plane? Zero to hero programs in the toilet, fewer military pilots and a gutted general aviation community doesn't produce the numbers required.
03-03-2009, 06:21 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 238
Originally Posted by OldSF3Dude
As a guy who has 2 master's degrees and has been in and out of aviation, these are my thoughts:
Seek advice, but follow your bliss. When I got into aviation in the early 90s every airline pilot told me I was nuts. If I would have listened to them I would have never become an airline pilot. I worked my way through my ratings, flight instructed, flew charter and worked as a ramp agent. In 1998 the airlines had recovered and I got hired on as a pilot for Mesaba. Be prepared and ready if and when things turn around.
In 2004 I left Mesaba to go back to school for a 2nd masters. After 6 years flying at the airlines I had enough. Contract negotiations, furloughs, displacements, etc. Basically no light at the end of the tunnel. I liked flying and the people I worked with, but couldn't justify staying with the airlines financially. Life always seemed like one step forward and two steps back. My wife made more money than me and it made no sense to move. I was sick of commuting.
While getting my 2nd masters I also got law enforcement certification. I worked summers as a deputy sheriff. A year ago aviation was having a bit of a growth spurt again and I decided to give it another go. Eagle said they'd give me a Embraer job in ORD with probably not more than 3 months on reserve. This sounded good to me as I was looking for a easy commute to ORD and a decent schedule. Fuel prices then shot up, Eagle quit hiring and I found myself on permanant reserve and facing displacement.... Back to working in my last degree field.
ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS have a back-up career!!! Aviation is way too fickle. Some guys never get hired. Some that do are forced out. Some are like me and like being pilots but are not willing to sell their soul or their family life to do it. Many have no other job skills and are stuck with it no matter what crap the airlines deal them.
In short, get your grad degree. Have a back-up career and have independence. Never rely on the airlines to feed your family. View flying as a second job or a hobby. If you get hired at a regional you're going to make side-job wages for the first few years. View it as a side-job. Maybe it works out and your passion turns into a career, but don't put all your eggs in that basket.
That's my new philosophy, anyway. It's much less frustrating to think in these terms. If things pick up in the airlines again I wouldn't mind going back. Money isn't a huge deal for me anymore. Being a captain isn't a big deal for me anymore. A decent quality of life and I'm happy. Smell the roses, etc. If it doesn't work out, or I get bored with it, I have another career. (I also have a wife who makes money). Having these options will make you a much less bitter man.
Seek advice, but follow your bliss. When I got into aviation in the early 90s every airline pilot told me I was nuts. If I would have listened to them I would have never become an airline pilot. I worked my way through my ratings, flight instructed, flew charter and worked as a ramp agent. In 1998 the airlines had recovered and I got hired on as a pilot for Mesaba. Be prepared and ready if and when things turn around.
In 2004 I left Mesaba to go back to school for a 2nd masters. After 6 years flying at the airlines I had enough. Contract negotiations, furloughs, displacements, etc. Basically no light at the end of the tunnel. I liked flying and the people I worked with, but couldn't justify staying with the airlines financially. Life always seemed like one step forward and two steps back. My wife made more money than me and it made no sense to move. I was sick of commuting.
While getting my 2nd masters I also got law enforcement certification. I worked summers as a deputy sheriff. A year ago aviation was having a bit of a growth spurt again and I decided to give it another go. Eagle said they'd give me a Embraer job in ORD with probably not more than 3 months on reserve. This sounded good to me as I was looking for a easy commute to ORD and a decent schedule. Fuel prices then shot up, Eagle quit hiring and I found myself on permanant reserve and facing displacement.... Back to working in my last degree field.
ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS have a back-up career!!! Aviation is way too fickle. Some guys never get hired. Some that do are forced out. Some are like me and like being pilots but are not willing to sell their soul or their family life to do it. Many have no other job skills and are stuck with it no matter what crap the airlines deal them.
In short, get your grad degree. Have a back-up career and have independence. Never rely on the airlines to feed your family. View flying as a second job or a hobby. If you get hired at a regional you're going to make side-job wages for the first few years. View it as a side-job. Maybe it works out and your passion turns into a career, but don't put all your eggs in that basket.
That's my new philosophy, anyway. It's much less frustrating to think in these terms. If things pick up in the airlines again I wouldn't mind going back. Money isn't a huge deal for me anymore. Being a captain isn't a big deal for me anymore. A decent quality of life and I'm happy. Smell the roses, etc. If it doesn't work out, or I get bored with it, I have another career. (I also have a wife who makes money). Having these options will make you a much less bitter man.
03-03-2009, 08:32 PM
#25
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: C-172 Instructor
Posts: 12
I'm going to piggy back on this topic rather then start one of my own, and I'm looking for advice/ideas.
I'm a 360ish hour CFI. I haven't had a steady student yet since I got my CFI is October of last year. My bachelors of science degree is in Aviation Technology. I do wonder if I shot my self in the foot (so to speak) by doing that.
I do have a full time job (sort of) in the hospitality industry, but I am looking to get out. I'd like to get in to the aviation industry, but everything is either holding as is or downsizing.
I can't fly for the military. I'm deaf in one ear so that crosses me out from getting a first class military medical.
I have thought about going back to school for a masters, but in what I have no idea. I dunno how I could take my current undergrad degree and aplly it to a masters. I never really thought of going on to get my masters when I was working on my undergrad.
I'm a 360ish hour CFI. I haven't had a steady student yet since I got my CFI is October of last year. My bachelors of science degree is in Aviation Technology. I do wonder if I shot my self in the foot (so to speak) by doing that.
I do have a full time job (sort of) in the hospitality industry, but I am looking to get out. I'd like to get in to the aviation industry, but everything is either holding as is or downsizing.
I can't fly for the military. I'm deaf in one ear so that crosses me out from getting a first class military medical.
I have thought about going back to school for a masters, but in what I have no idea. I dunno how I could take my current undergrad degree and aplly it to a masters. I never really thought of going on to get my masters when I was working on my undergrad.
03-03-2009, 09:42 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Originally Posted by DreamAir
...I can't fly for the military. I'm deaf in one ear so that crosses me out from getting a first class military medical...
Please don't take it wrong but I wonder how that works? You must be wearing some kind of hearing device on the ear, right?
A few months ago I flew with a captain who's almost deaf on one ear. He said himself he didn't think he'd pass his next FAA medical without a hearing device of some sort. It was an interesting flight to say the least - and he was only “almost deaf” on one ear...
03-04-2009, 04:06 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,408
If you want to get into aviation, then keep building your time and skills. Don't go into debt as you do it. When the industry turns around, you'll be ready.
I wouldn't get a masters just to get one. If you want to get into a field that requires one, then by all means, do it. It just won't help at the airline interview.
Your aviation degree will help a bit at the airline interview, but will be far less value to other employers. Education seldoms hurts.
Aviation employment is like a wave. It goes up and down. To many in the industry, we down play the effect the economy has on others. Everything is down. We will look back on this time as one of the worst downturns since the depression. Individual sucess in aviation is based on were in the cycle you get on and pure luck. Call me in 23 years and I'll tell you if I made the correct choices. The second issue is that aviation has many paths and unless your hell bent on an airline career, then keep your eyes open. There are many ways to make a living off aviation.
I wouldn't get a masters just to get one. If you want to get into a field that requires one, then by all means, do it. It just won't help at the airline interview.
Your aviation degree will help a bit at the airline interview, but will be far less value to other employers. Education seldoms hurts.
Aviation employment is like a wave. It goes up and down. To many in the industry, we down play the effect the economy has on others. Everything is down. We will look back on this time as one of the worst downturns since the depression. Individual sucess in aviation is based on were in the cycle you get on and pure luck. Call me in 23 years and I'll tell you if I made the correct choices. The second issue is that aviation has many paths and unless your hell bent on an airline career, then keep your eyes open. There are many ways to make a living off aviation.
Originally Posted by DreamAir
I'm going to piggy back on this topic rather then start one of my own, and I'm looking for advice/ideas.
I'm a 360ish hour CFI. I haven't had a steady student yet since I got my CFI is October of last year. My bachelors of science degree is in Aviation Technology. I do wonder if I shot my self in the foot (so to speak) by doing that.
I do have a full time job (sort of) in the hospitality industry, but I am looking to get out. I'd like to get in to the aviation industry, but everything is either holding as is or downsizing.
I can't fly for the military. I'm deaf in one ear so that crosses me out from getting a first class military medical.
I have thought about going back to school for a masters, but in what I have no idea. I dunno how I could take my current undergrad degree and aplly it to a masters. I never really thought of going on to get my masters when I was working on my undergrad.
I'm a 360ish hour CFI. I haven't had a steady student yet since I got my CFI is October of last year. My bachelors of science degree is in Aviation Technology. I do wonder if I shot my self in the foot (so to speak) by doing that.
I do have a full time job (sort of) in the hospitality industry, but I am looking to get out. I'd like to get in to the aviation industry, but everything is either holding as is or downsizing.
I can't fly for the military. I'm deaf in one ear so that crosses me out from getting a first class military medical.
I have thought about going back to school for a masters, but in what I have no idea. I dunno how I could take my current undergrad degree and aplly it to a masters. I never really thought of going on to get my masters when I was working on my undergrad.
03-04-2009, 09:09 AM
#28
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: C-172 Instructor
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
So, do you now have a first class FAA medical with a waiver?
Please don't take it wrong but I wonder how that works? You must be wearing some kind of hearing device on the ear, right?
A few months ago I flew with a captain who's almost deaf on one ear. He said himself he didn't think he'd pass his next FAA medical without a hearing device of some sort. It was an interesting flight to say the least - and he was only “almost deaf” on one ear...
Please don't take it wrong but I wonder how that works? You must be wearing some kind of hearing device on the ear, right?
A few months ago I flew with a captain who's almost deaf on one ear. He said himself he didn't think he'd pass his next FAA medical without a hearing device of some sort. It was an interesting flight to say the least - and he was only “almost deaf” on one ear...
I have talked with military pilots and I have been told that the military flight medical is more stringent, and for reasons I can see why.
FAR 67.107
(a) The person shall demonstrate acceptable hearing by at least one of the following.
1. Demonstrate an ability to hear an average conversational voice in a quiet room, using both ears, at a distance of 6feet from the examiner with the back turned towards the examiner.
2. Demonstrate an acceptable understanding of speech as determined by audiometric speech discrimination testing to a score of at least 70% obtained in one ear or in a sound field environment.
3. Provided acceptable results of pure tone audiometric testing of unaided hearing acuity according to the worst possible thresholds, using the calibration standards of the American National Standards Institute.
03-04-2009, 10:28 AM
#29
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 10
This is what I'm planning to do:
I'm graduating this May with a BS degree in Mechanical Engineering. I'm planning to work as an engineer for a while and use my paycheck for flight training. I hope to get most of my tickets in the next 2-3 years. Then i'll start instructing do other things on the side to get the hours. Once the economy and hiring shot up, i hope to be in a good position to be hired and switch to a permanent flying career then.
As for your case, I think a MS in aero engineering is probably a good way to go. Or may be get an engineering job and finance your flying. New grad should earn about 55-65k/yr... with enough passion for flying (save all you can), u'll be able to pay for all your flying within 2 yrs... Then you can go back to school for master or phd and instruct on the side... Just my .02 cent. In fact i'll think i'll get back to school for a master within several yrs too...
Best regards,
VD
I'm graduating this May with a BS degree in Mechanical Engineering. I'm planning to work as an engineer for a while and use my paycheck for flight training. I hope to get most of my tickets in the next 2-3 years. Then i'll start instructing do other things on the side to get the hours. Once the economy and hiring shot up, i hope to be in a good position to be hired and switch to a permanent flying career then.
As for your case, I think a MS in aero engineering is probably a good way to go. Or may be get an engineering job and finance your flying. New grad should earn about 55-65k/yr... with enough passion for flying (save all you can), u'll be able to pay for all your flying within 2 yrs... Then you can go back to school for master or phd and instruct on the side... Just my .02 cent. In fact i'll think i'll get back to school for a master within several yrs too...
Best regards,
VD
03-04-2009, 11:37 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Originally Posted by DreamAir
I have gotten a first class civilian medical, and the only waiver I have on it is for glasses. I am totally deaf in the left ear. I have been so since birth. But I really only notice my loss in loud situations, or when the person is talking extremely quietly and is directly on my left side. When it comes to flying, I hear everything just fine through the headset. I dunno why your captain would think he wouldn't pass unless his 'good' ear was damaged too...
"...I really only notice my loss in loud situations, or when the person is talking extremely quietly and is directly on my left side..."
I'm sure your doc knows better than me... Having said that I'm very surpised... We don't have voice activated headsets instead we use simple Telex headsets. In other words we hear ATC via the headset but when we talk to each other the sound does not go through the headset. The B757 in particular gets very noisy so I'm curious how that'd work out for you...
Either way, back to the topic...
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