larryward

As the guy responsible for the maintenance at United Flight, your remark is off the mark. We spend a lot of effort and money to be sure our aircraft are safe and properly inspected. Give me a specific instance of bad maintenance if you have one. Larry Ward.

rickair7777

Any instructor rating can be done as an initial, and any rating can be done as an add-on. Whatever your initial rating is, you will have to do FOI's, and may be held to a tougher standard.

Many FSDO's also like to require that your initial be done by a fed vice a DPE. This is not a regulatory requirement, and if you somehow slipped through the cracks, there's not much they can do about it (except beat up the DPE who did the ride).

Kasserine06

In the case I was speaking about, this person never took the FOI knowledge test before she went for her CFI-I. She was never tested on this stuff for her first CFI checkride. She was teaching students for months while she studied for the FOI written. That is why the FSDO was against it. To them, she is just someone who was able to do an instrument checkride from the right seat (even though it virtually is that). Her ability to teach was never evaluated until three months later when she went for her (regular) CFI.

RadarContact

Like everyone has been saying, you can definitely do the CFII first. It might actually be a good idea too, as long as the examiner doesn't have any personal issues with it. There are fewer items to accomplish on the CFII check ride, and you only need to memorize one PTS. Fewer maneuvers, and fewer lessons to teach on the ground = less chance of failure. The CFI initial check ride is tough, and it has a high failure rate on the first try. This is a way to take some of the stress away, and once you have it under your belt you can go back and add on the CFI.

I would not recommend however performing any instrument instruction, especially in IMC, until you have some instructing experience. You might be an awesome pilot and instructor, but you can only teach/talk/yell so quickly while the student is screwing up. Better to learn technique on a nice VFR day, than during an ILS with ATC yelling at you (regardless of wx that day).

What ever you decide, good luck!

hotwing

She is not the chief, but the assistant chief... The chief is a continental airlines fo... She is the assistant chief... either of them will glady help you out... as far as mtx, they try very hard to stay on top of this... they have a great reputation.

rickair7777

An examiner screwed up big-time on that one. Your initial instructor ride MUST include FOIs (and you must have the FOI written done). It does not matter in the slightest which cert you do first, but it must include FOIs.

NuGuy

Agreed. This is all laid out in the PTS.

First of all, this story is suspect, and I would imagine that it is a retelling of some goofy story that has mutated as it passed around the airport. Most DPEs, especially one's that are authorized to do CFI rides, know their jobs and authorizations to a T. To give a CFII ride as an add-on, when it's an intial ticket ride is beyond the pale, and I'm guessing this story is %99 BS.

But, in the unlikely event it IS true, and the feds found out about it, this person could be subject to a 709 ride, because, technically, the CFIA was an addon, and whoever gave it would not be required to test the FOI section.

Again, if true, this person needs to clam up about it, or go to the feds and fess up. These stories have a way of making the rounds in a local area, and if it winds up with the local FAA (small world theory), they will get the kind of attention they don't want.

Nu

joepilot

A question reference the PTS. IF you already have all your Ground Instructor ratings, then you cannot present the FOI test results to the examiner (unless you kept a xerox) since you had to turn them in to the Feds when you picked up your Ground Instructor ratings.

Does the examiner have to test your knowledge of FOI again, (whichever flight instructor rating you do first), since presumably you have met that while doing ground instructing?

Joe

RadarContact

If you have just one ground instructor rating, you no longer have the FOI test results. You still have to do the FOI portion of the practical test. In the PTS if you reference the "additional rating task table" you will see that if you already have a "FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR" certificate, there are certain areas which will be skipped. The FOI is skipped on all subsequent practical tests, after you do it on the first one. If you don't already have a "FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR" certificate, then you must complete ALL required tasks.

I had my AGI already when I took the CFI practical test, and yes I had to do the FOI portion. It's not too tough. A few straight forward rote memory type questions, but they mostly just analyze your lessons that you present to see if you used your knowledge of how to instruct. Your lesson plan should be prepared in such a way to demonstrate your knowledge/mastery of the FOI's. The examiner will ask you questions throughout the lesson (playing dumb of course) to see how you react too. It will seem cheesy at the time, but once you start instructing you will see that it's pretty accurate. The FOI portion will also take place in flight.

Don't try to find ways around doing it. A good foundation with the FOI's will make you a great instructor. It's not just about going flying, you have to be able to teach. Some people are better at it than others and can naturally form lessons in their heads. Others have to put a lot of time and effort into it. The FOI section is set up with that in mind.

rickair7777

You have to show him your AGI card in lieu of the FOI written, and he will still have to cover FOIs. It's on the PTS, with no exemption specified for ground instructors.