Say you have a Kingair or any other plane that doesn't require a type rating. You have two qualified pilots, can both of those pilots log flight time or just the one who is flying? I might have an opportunity to fly as a copilot I know there are a lot of gray areas to flying "support" but I always hear of guys flying right seat king air and counting the time. By the way I think it's pt91.

 

Is the capt an MEI? Then you're golden...not sure on other rules. Beautiful thing about that situation is that you both log PIC. Not sure what an particular company would say about that, but its still loggable PIC. Would be really good if you were looking at an overseas job that required a certain amount of PIC or a job down the line that required a total PIC requirement.

 

Two pilots can only log flight time in certain circumstances. The key is one regulation: FAR 61.51. It's the universal rule on logging time. What 61.51 does is set up a bunch of "boxes." If you fit in a box, you may log the flight time. If you don't, you can't.

Since you're talking about two qualified pilot, let's assume that there is no instruction involved, so neither of you is logging time based on instruction given or instruction received.

For simplicity, I'm also going to leave out hood work and a safety pilot. Just a plain vanilla VFR or IFR flight in a King Air.

In that case, there are two boxes: the PIC box in 61.51(e) and the SIC box in 61.51(f).

The one who is flying is easy. 61.51(e)(1)(i) - assuming the proper category and class ratings, the sole manipulator of the controls may always log PIC (doesn't matter who is the "real" pilot in command of the flight).

The one who is not flying? 61.51(e) and (f) give you two boxes (you can probably break them down into more, but then this would be much longer ):

Box 1: a private pilot or above may log PIC if "acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted." 61.51(e)(1)(iii)

Well, your King Air doesn't require two pilots, so the "required under the type certification" is out. And since you're in Part 91, you're not in a operation where more than one pilot is required by "the regulations under which the flight is conducted."

Box 2: Assuming some other qualifications (which your scenario says you have), the non-flying pilot may log SIC time under two conditions. The FAR actually makes it simple since they are related to the conditions for logging PIC. The non-flying pilot may log SIC when "more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted." 61.51(f)(2) (Sound familiar?)

Well, looks like a no-go. Your King Air doesn't require two pilots so, again, "required under the type certification" is out. And, just like for PIC, nothing in a plain-vanilla Part 91 flight requires two pilots.

Sorry, the flight doesn't fit into a 61.51 box so nothing to log.

Make it into an instructional flight, and instrument practice flight under the hood with a safety pilot or certain types of Part 135 ops, and the answer could change.

 

Sounds like there are only two legal ways to do it in this case: Flight instruction or safety pilot.

You cannot do unlimited flight instruction, it has to be for valid flight training purposes. Since you are new to the airplane that qualifies as a valid reason for flight instruction. You could reasonably do that for many flights in an airplane as complex as a king air. But you cannot do it forever...if you log dual received for hundreds of flights, that will not go over well with employers or the FAA (they will revoke your tickets).

If the guy wants to let you fly under the hood, I think you can do that as much as you like...nobody ever has too much IFR proficiency. That would look better for employers too...many airlines do not count dual received the same as actual PIC.

 

So if it's a pt91 flight and it's on an average less than 12500k corporate prop, like a Kingair or a Cessna 421, the only way to log that time is to be multi rated and be the person that is actually flying that leg?

 

No, not necessarily. You'd have to approve that prior with the guy in the left seat. If he's cool with not logging the time at all, then you can. The only way that both of you are gonna log that time is if one of you gives the other dual or if one of you has a hood on.

If something happened, the FAA or insurance may have a problem with you loggin with passengers on board. Some of the old farts who don't care about hours any longer may be more willing to let you log from the left on empty legs. Depends on the place.

 

It's not a commercial op, it's a private airplane used for the personal business, family and angel flights. And yes, they don't need the flight time. They did mention insurance too, I guess that's why it helps them to have a copilot.

 

Search for this topic...it's around ad nauseum ...also "Everything explained for the professional pilot" (the book) a great job of outlining those areas in the regs.

Good luck and just make sure you have a HA endorsement as well as complex/hp!!!

 

Unless instruction or hood work is going on, yep. You got it.

 

If you do decide to log it in some form or another, I wouldn't log more than a few hours unless you are planning on learning the systems in depth. You never know when someone in an interview will open to that page and say "Ah, I see you have time in a King Air, I used to fly that too, describe the unique characteristics of the landing gear system". (Or something to that effect) A few hours will go overlooked, but if you have pages of time in this plane, Murphy's Law states that you will get systems questions during an interview.

Following that same thought - if you are only going to get a few hours in it and you aren't sure if you can log it, don't log it. You are allowed to just have a flight for the fun of it, and to gain some good experience without logging it. Nothing says you have to log the flight. Although most pilots will log anything they can even vaguely justify. Just remember that whatever you put in that log book you might have to justify to someone else later. And you better hope they agree with your thinking.