globalexpress

You're already a hero! How many lives have you saved in your career?

First of all, if you really, really, really want to be a pilot, I say do it no matter what. If you think being a pilot would be "kinda cool" and your love of aviation is not that intense, I say stick with the noble firefighting profession and fly general aviation on the side. The luster of being an airline pilot wears off very quickly for those not absolutely passionate about their career choice.

I would take the advice on this thread over anything ATP tells you. They are trying to sell you a product and don't necessarily have your best interests at heart. They're certainly not going to tell you how bad the profession is right now and how poor the prospects seem to be. If they told all their customers that, they'd be out of business.

On the plus side of going into the aviation profession, it sounds like you'll only have around 10K in debt after completing your training. That's good because as you read above, you won't be making 50K a year for a very long time. And I would bet that you're really making more than 50K per year because you're probably entitled to a pension. It's highly unlikely you'll see a pension in the airline industry. Or much for retirement for that matter. So on top of not making 50K a year for many years, you'll have to save for your own retirement. That will be a double financial whammy for you. Never mind the opportunity cost of your future raises as a firefighter that you'll never receive if you go the airline pilot route.

On the negative side, there is a huge, huge oversupply of pilots in the U.S. right now. During good economic times, there is merely an oversupply of pilots. During poor economic times, there is a huge oversupply of pilots. Right now, there is an extra large oversupply of pilots due to the economy, the recent change in legal retirement age from 60 to age 65, and the downsizing of the airline industry. There are literally 1000's of highly qualified pilots on the street right now who will probably get a job before you do. It literally may be years before those furloughed guys find employment again, never mind a new guy. And to top it all off, the supply of "good jobs" are dwindling as well as major airline outsource their "good jobs" to regional airlines which tend to be "less good" type jobs. Your stay at a regional will be longer and longer as more major airline jobs are outsourced, delaying that return on your airline career training investment, assuming also you're never furloughed or your airline doesn't go out of business. Remember, unlike other professions, if you lose your job you start at the bottom of someone else's seniority list. That means low pay all over again and Christmases in Des Moines instead of home with the kids. So you're going to have all these things stacked against you when you graduate from ATP.

Still want to be an airline pilot? This is what I would do if I were you. I'd keep your day job and train on the side. Take your time and work through your private pilot certificate, get an instrument rating, get your commercial pilot certificate, then get your CFI (flight instructor certificate). Flight instruct on the side to build your hours. If it takes several years before airlines (regional or national) start hiring again, you'll have plenty of time in your logbook, you'll have a better understanding of the profession, and you'll be in a better position financially to make a decision as to whether you'll want to take the leap from firefighting to pilot. If by some miracle the airline industry starts taking off again, you can always jump over to an All-ATP type program whenever. It's not like that opportunity is going to disappear if you don't take it right now.

Good luck to you.

globalexpress

ChillBill-

How is business at ATP's nowadays? Is it slowing down? Are your students having a harder time finding financing for the program? Just curious.

Thanks.

atpwannabe

I believe that ATP not only made that statement because they are running a business just as Diver Driver pointed out, but also, when you look at this guy's "bio",.....him, being a firefighter, speaks volumes about his reliability, character, integrity and committment. He, referring to elijahmike1, would probably not "jump" at the first sign of a hiring cycle knowing that there are huge numbers of furloughed pilots ahead him so to speak. Not only would ATP get someone that they know that they can count on coming to work, but also coming to work and being productive.

That's why I think the statement "You're exactly what we're looking for" was made.


JMO.




atp

ChillBillPilot

Global, ATPs business is picking up again. It had slowed down just like everything else with the economy downturn. Students are still coming in and it seems to be picking up again. As far as financing goes, that is a little out of my league. The guys down in Jax work all that stuff out so that all I have to do is what I love, teach and fly. Take my comments with a grain of salt but ATP is always working on new financing for the students and I believe that there are several lenders out there now that ATP is using. On a side note do you fly a Global?

globalexpress

Nope, I wish. Just fly internationally.

papatango269

The moon is already spoken for.

rickair7777

Definitely do this, many folks think they would love to fly, plunk down $100K for a fancy school, get into the regionals and find out they don't really like it that much. Of course at that point they are in too much debt to quit, or are too embarrassed to after being glorified by their friends and family as a god-like airline pilot.

Flight schools in general are notoriously dishonest, and will tell you anything to get you in the door.

In the current environment, keep your job, go get a PPL, and do some fun flying. If you really like it, maybe start on an instrument rating. Keep an eye on the economy and the airline business and plan the best time to make the jump. Barring an economic miracle hiring will be low to zero until late 2012 (age 65). But be sure you really enjoy flying before you do anything drastic.

At your age, hopefully your wife has a good job.

GrUpGrDn

First take a look at the GI bill, If i remember correctly, they do not pay for the private cert. That takes care of just going out to the local FBO and start training. Secondly, the GI bill will only pay for part 141 training, and only 65% of that. ALL the above posts imho were very informative, now it is up to YOU to decide the right course to take, weigh all options carefully, think long term benefits(to you mentally,financially, to your family). When you have questions, ask them, no question is stupid, except for the one not asked. Good luck!!! Have FUN!!!!!! BE SAFE!

RemoveB4flght

I don't think he was implying that ATP instructors are not legit, if you look at the context, he was saying that if the guy goes with a smaller flight school to make sure that the CFI is up to par.

RemoveB4flght

Why not just get your private pilot's license and an instrument rating. These two cornerstones should not be rushed anyway. With these, you can rent a plane and flt you and your family anywhere you want to go. You need to build a little time in between, which is great for getting your wife and kids involved with your dream. Even if a pilot career isn't in the cards... you will never regret doing just this much, and you'll have it for as long as you are able to fly.

Down the road if you want to add on Commercial or Multi-Engine training, these can be done in a relatively quick period of time. Feel out the industry, but don't gamble on it.

You may find that you would rather spend the money to add on a glider or seaplane rating. Maybe get some aerobatic training... 5 to 10 hours of that will give you a new outlook on flying. Perhaps you would want to dabble in those expensive helicopter things.

Or you can pick up a sport pilot license for around 3 grand, and there are a couple fun, inexpensive planes you can fly with that....


The point is that there are many options that don't involve committing a large sum of money on something you might never see a return from