Ewfflyer

jrs3fk195,

First off, I'm up in Muncie, and I'm sending you a private message. All this is great advice which can honestly be summed up as "experience." Some folks just grab it and go, others are more cautious. Realizing your style of study/learning/control and then minimizing weaknesses, building strengths, takes time. I'd be glad to help when/where I can.

papatango269

What you are experiencing is normal. Actual is a whole different ballgame. My flight school is in the midwest and I encourage all inst. students to get as much actual as they can. I was very conservative after I got my ticket, I wouldn't fly actual by myself. I liked having another inst. rated pilot with me as a safety measure.

Set some personal mins and take it slow. You build experience and that will build your confidence. They kinda go hand in hand. As you build that confidence and exp. you can lower your mins. Continue to practice, practice, practice. They say you have to do 6 approaches and tracking and holding every six months and you are legal, but how proficient are you? There have been a number of instrument rated pilots who got into deep which ended in bad results. Know your limits.

With vertigo and those feelings you've been having....you have to trust the instruments and fight what you body and other senses are feeding you.
I've had the leans several times and you just have to fight it.


practice

good luck
Papa T

Diver Driver

The most important thing you can do is to NEVER TRUST WHAT YOUR VESTIBULAR SYSTEM IS TELLING YOU IN IMC! Ever!

I have experienced light, moderate and even extreme vertigo and disorientation before flying in light GA aircraft and in regional jets. It happens to everyone and is completely normal. The important thing is that you must trust your instruments in IMC no matter what your body is telling you. I know it is counter intuitive to your law enforcement training, but trust in your instruments is a must.

Develop a scan that works for you, I use the hub and spoke scan in aircraft with the standard 6-pack instrument panel, as opposed to the RJ's glass cockpit "stare" scan because everything is on the same screen. Over time you will develop more confidence in yourself to rely solely on your instrumentation and will be better able to push away the urge to turn when you body tells you you should and your instruments don't.

It's like learning how to drive, remember how scary it was the first time you merged onto a busy highway? The same goes for flying, with practice you will become more confident and proficient.

I live in a suburb on the Northwest side of Cincinnati, I'd be happy to fly with you anytime for free when you want practice in actual IMC conditions. I PM'd you my email address if you are interested.

mshunter

I know I am a little lae to the party, but I'll just shoot from the hip, and give my experince with vertigo.

I used to get it really bad, untill I figured out the problem. Now, I have only gotten it when breaking out between layers and haveing a sloped horizon to look at, or some funky cloud formations to see. When I would get into the clouds, I'd have to stare at my insts. with such intensity that I'd start to sweat. And after a few seconds, I'd feel like I was in a diving spirial. Then I took my arm of the armrest, and sat back in my seat, and it was like someone turned off the switch. When I learned to relax in the clouds and realized I had been trained to do this (IMC flight), it became second nature.

I don't know if you sit up in the seat, lean against the seat back, use an arm rest, or sit like a 'gangsta' but not using the arm rests and sitting in my seat comfortably (not leaning forward and glaring at the panel), made all the difference for me at least.

jrs3fk195

I have read a lot of posts that seem to mention various seating arrangements while IMC. Up until reading these posts, I never thought of this. Now, I really think there may be something to it. Some have mentioned sitting down low to see as much of the panel possible, and other's have mentioned leaning back in the seat. I think these are all good ideas, and I am going to try to tweak them for my unique position. That position being that I am 6'5. I fly a Piper Arrow, and I lowered the seat as much as I could, but I was still looking way over the top of the panel. I have not tried to lean back in the seat more, but I will definitley give it a try.

Fr8DogDan

Seat position may help a bit but being 6'5" in a piper probably won't give you much to work with. I still will get vertigo occasionally. What did help me is trying to get into the clouds as much as possible. When I didn't have much time actual, I'd make sure that the bases were high and just get into IMC and fly, trusting the instruments all the way. I've found that it helps. The prior post are right that the airplane doesn't know it's IMC, flies the same either way so it's your body lying to you. I had a FO that would get vertigo real good on a climbing turn in the clouds. I wouldn't take over for him, made him do it and trust the instruments. Excellent pilot and he got real comfortable even when his body was giving him the Detroit leans. I'd even see him lean to the side but kept on the gauges and did great. Keep flying, you'll work it out.

fjetter

I understand where you are coming from here. I'm 6'7" flying piper traumahawks to arrows can be challenging for someone of our stature (knees getting in the way in xwind landings for example). Most importantly take a deep breath and relax once you go IMC. Probably the most dis-illusioning thing for me is breaking in and out of clouds with false horizons.

jrs3fk195

I have the same problem with the false horizons during my wopping 6 hours of actual. Most people say I'm crazy for thinking this, and my experience is too limited to even really give an opinion- But, I almost think IFR at night is a little easier. It's just black.....everywhere. As opposed to the illusions that can be seen during the day. Having read all of these posts. I really think my biggest problem is that I just need to relax when I enter the clouds. It just seems so contradictary to relax and feel comfortable when your traveling 120 knots, can't see a thing, and your body is telling you everything is wrong for being there.

However, Jimmy Doolittle did it and pilots have been doing it for decades so obviously it is possible.

shdw

Forgive me if I am repeating anyone, I did a search for 'ent' through the posts and found nothing mentioning this.

When you initially enter into the clouds where are your eyes, what are you looking at?


Assuming your eyes are outside or you are at least scanning the outside:

Typically it can be very disorienting entering and exiting IMC, entry being the worst of the 2. If you read around you will here talk of pilots at low altitudes popping in and out say to keep your eyes on the instruments. The reason being is when you look outside and all of the sudden its like someone shuts the closet door, especially at night, it is disorienting.

Instead of looking outside till you enter the clouds try moving to your instruments and keeping there. Don't scan the outside at first, when you first enter your likely nervous especially now since you think you will be sick each time. That nervousness alone can make you nauseous without the clouds so just sit comfortably, keep your head down and still with your eyes on the instruments. Once in IMC for a couple minutes, feeling comfortable, having your nerves, and hopefully not feeling sick. Then you can scan the outside as well.



Seen flyboys? That spinning on a chair with your head down and trying to run a line can help more than you might think. Use a bat for more practical purposes of not need a partner laughing at you. Go up and do unusual attitudes under the hood in an aerobatic aircraft with inverted recoveries.

This stuff will simply make your head and your stomach more comfortable with the sensations of the flying environment. If you can handle the extremes then simple stuff, IMC or not, IMO would be easier.

Good luck with it.


PS I'm not an II but trained in the NE so I had actual many times throughout my training as well as aerobatic work. I feel that stuff helped me a lot though I never had a problem with rides or anything else making me feel nauseous in the first place so.

250 or point 65

Forgive me for not quite understanding. Exactly what are you scanning for outside when you are in IMC? To me, there's nothing to see out there and you only run the risk of becoming increasingly disoriented and eventually upset.