Longbow64

I'm in Iraq now with 4th ID. I have a student pilot's license with 25 hours. I plan on getting my PPL as soon as I get back to Texas. What are your comments about MPD? I looked at many flight schools on line, and this one makes the most sense to me. I have money saved up. I should be able to get some help from VA since I'm in the Army. Thanks!

Spc. Antony
Camp Taji, Iraq
1-4 Aviation Regiment, Vipers

BURflyer

1st drawback, it is over priced for what you get, 300 hours of flight time. 2nd, you have to go through college to get that 2 year degree at SJC. 3rd, it is a moral issue. Many pilots don't take too kindly to pilots that buy their way into the airline industry and not going through the regular way of gaining experience as a CFI for a few years. Especially guys changing careers who think they are too old and that it's ok to buy their way because they don' thave time to flight instruct and get experience. MPD definitely is buying your way since you only have 300 hours when you get the position at Mesa. Get ready to face some discrimination at places other than Mesa. 4th, and probably the most important, MESA is a very rough place to work at. The toilet paper you use to wipe your ass is worth more than the work contract for Mesa pilots. 5th, since at 300 hours it will take you a long time to get the minimums for a captain postion, you will be a FO with poverty wages longer.

My advice if you really want to though MPD and MESA and have 2year degree or better go through the PACE program not the primary. Go to your local school in Texas, get your 250 hours and a CFI rating cheap and instruct untill you have 500 hours and THEN do the PACE. That way you at least have some CFI experience and will have some dignity and self respect when facing future employers or fellow pilots. Although Pace is still considered buying your job. If you have time(18-30 months) then just do it the right way by instructing and EARNING the right to work at an airline. At 300 hours not only are you cheating the pax that rely on you for their lives but also you will be cheating yourself. I guarantee you that you will feel much better knowing that you earned your job rather than payed for it.

HSLD

First, thanks for your service in Iraq.

When you get back to Texas....is that Kileen by chance? Are you leaving the service once your back? Are you staying in Texas?

The reason I ask this is there is an excellent 18 month (shorter if you already have the PPL) in Waco. The school is TSTC and it has a solid flight training program. It's a state funded school, and by charter that can't turn a profit - so tuition and flight training is much more reasonable. Tuition is also very affordable is you are a Texas resident.

This is not a "zero to hero" program, you will spend the better part of 18 months in school and end up with ratings through CFI and an associate degree which can transfer to any 4 year university if you choose.

EngineOut

Seems kinda' funny to me that everyone says don't buy your job at the MAPD program and then turns around and says get your ratings elsewhere and do PACE. PACE is pure PFT/PFJ...the ab initio program is not. If buying a job is a person's biggest MAPD pet peeve, stop poo-pooing ab initio and encouraging PACE!

Regarding cost: all of the training is done in A36 Bonanzas and B58 Barons. The Bonanza is $135 or so an hour. I flew Cessna 172s for that price in Texas! The Baron is $235 or so an hour. They want HOW MUCH for a broke down Seminole? $215? $225?

I got my ratings Part 61 in three years, spent $13,000 building multi time, got my CFIs, instructed (took me almost a year to build 200 hours dual given). Wish I went to MAPD. Would have been a lot less expensive in terms of opportunity cost.

Don't tell me it's overpriced. One of the best kept secrets in aviation...if you can deal with living in Farmington.

After you put in your time at Mesa, very likely no one would even care where you got your ratings.

Longbow64

Thanks for responding to my thread. When I leave Iraq, I'll be going back to Killeen, I still have almost 2 years left in the Army. I'll do more research, but right now, MPD seems like the right choice.

rickair7777

The previous posters had good points on MAPD and PACE. I know several military guys who did pace, and that is what I would recomend. I will say that I was once in your shoes, and not knowing what I know now, I probably would have done PACE. Fortunately for me I had never heard of it...

1) Get your ratings at a local school, INCLUDING THE CFI!!!
2) Evaluate the industry...many regionals might be hiring at 600 hours in a few years (for several reasons). If that is the case you certainly don't need MAPD or PACE.
3) If you think you need PACE at that point, do it. I would recommend working as a CFI instead, since that experience will get you hired at a better regional.


If you desire to move beyond Mesa (if you don't now, you will after about 6 months there!) be aware that many major airline pilots blame regionals in general and low-time PFT pilots in particular for the collapse of their lifestyle...as an MAPD grad you will be thoroughly despised in some circles and could easily get denied a major airline job due to having the PFT background. That's why I recomend the CFI...military aviation and flight instruction are the accepted paths into this profession. Shortcuts are just that, shortcuts! To put it in your perspective, what would you think of an infantry soldier who got a deal where he managed to skip AIT by donating $80,000 to the army... 1) He's underqualified, 2) The REAL grunts are ****ed off cuz this guy skipped all the BS because he had money...

BTW if you can pick up a reserve or guard helo slot do that...it's not as good as fixed wing military from an airline perspective, but you can get in without college, and any military aviation is good on the resume.

rickair7777

Completey incorrect:

No CFI + little or no Dual Given + Mesa = MAPD

Also you have to list every school you've ever gone to on ANY airline app...you gonna just leave a two year blank spot and tell them you took some time off to sit on the beach and smoke dope in Bora Bora??

EngineOut

Didn't say they wouldn't know. I said they wouldn't care. MAPD is a flight school just like Uncle Joe's Learn-2-Fly FBO. They just use HP equipment and add airline procedures. Frankly, those procedures they teach should be integrated into any fllight training syllabus.

Furthermore, many major airline pilots I have spoken with haven't even heard of Mesa Airlines, much less MAPD. Particularly two America West pilots I met. "Pizza Airlines? Who's that? Oh Mesa? Never heard of them." And allow me to add they were not being obtuse. Seriously had no idea. Not kidding.

I really try to avoid arguments for or against MAPD, but some misstatements really get me riled up.

BURflyer

You know what, EngineOut the experience you get at MPD isn't worth anything, in the real world you wouldn't be able to find a CFI spot at a mom and pop flight school let alone be able to fly regional jets. Plus think about it, if an airline is willing to hire 300 hour guys, that kind of shows how ****ty the airline is doesn't it? Do you want to work at a ****ty airline?

rickair7777

It would be absolutely impossible for any AWA pilot to not know about Mesa...their two bases are PHX and LAS, and at each of those airports they share numerous ramps, concourses, and gates with mesa to the tune of hundreds of daily flights. We often use the same ops, ramp, and gate personnel. Mesa and cactus ops are extremely integrated. Hundreds of mesa crews deadhead on cactus each week.

If that conversation actually occured with actual cactus pilots then they were most certainly being obtuse...

Since Mesa is the third or fourth largest jet regional, most mainline pilots at any airline are aware of them...this business is a small world, although your statements lead me to believe that you would have no way of knowing that.